Posted on 01/10/2005 12:36:47 PM PST by It's me
YOU said the death of a Christian was a GOOD thing, not me.
Could someone please tell me the difference between a Cathedral and a Basilica?
The mosques may have been saved but the difference is that the water went around the cathedral. As in, did not enter the Cathedral, where it did enter into the mosques. While the water went around the cathedral, it hit the other buildings on the same level.
I don't think that was due to sturdy construction.
My world view is will to grant as many dimensions as there are degrees of freedom.
I belive as you do, but, I've been waiting for him to pay attention to San Fransico and wish he would hurry up!!!!
I'm still learning but I am not liking it when people take Glory away from Father, Son and Holy Spirit and give it to Mary, Catholic Saints or man....regardless of the topic.
We don't do that. It's all to God.
See the greek language with a far larger vocabulary I don't remember the Greek to English words ratio but what comes to mind is they had 3:1 words, to our every one. An example that was given in class was Agapeo Phileo Storgen and eros all of which are translated love but each as you know are completely different.
There are many words that there is not an exact equivalent -- this is even more true in Hebrew that is a pictographic language. And in the cases of no real equivalent we have passages where there are 18 words in the Creek and 28 or more words in english -- this takes translation into a commentary
And this is what the other words inserted as definitions are they are commentary because in the case of Paradosin there is no Up in the word there is no tradition in the word there is no doctrine in the word.
Consider the number of untranslated words that are inserted in the text -- and there is a full definiion and sometimes accompanying doctrine with these words: Saint = Hagion Saint is actually the Latin word Santos for Holy which should give a hint as to who has chosen some of the words. Other words Glory - doxa , Grace charis and Gift is Charisma the two words are the same. Apostle Apostlos Prophet Prophetos prophesy prophecy, evangelist.
In a study of translations I found an oddity some years ago where are word was incorrectly translated and the word was translated the same way in virtually all translations.
I brought this up to my professor and he glibly remarked at the time that translators translate using a combination of actually translation and traditions based on older bible versions. At the time I was completely dissatisfied with his answer and would not be for quite a few years until I realized the implications and so I went back to comparing translations and found more and more things that were in common between them that should not be unless as my teacher suggested they were translating certain things according to traditions.
How many translators were needed at any one time for the first 1500 years of church history not too many at the time of Jerome he and another man by made a translation and as a matte of fact chruch history records that Jerome wanted to go in and correct the texts -- they took all the Greek and made it latin, from the Latin translations came all the early translations the Geneva the douvey and a few others the moderns all use the Latin and its daughters to create a new version.
The translators were the gate keepers for doctrine, they were a small fraternal order of only the most faithful. Ultimately there was no one to oversee what they were doing. Now a bit of intrigue why translate Greek which everyone could read at the time into Latin, could one reason be that at the time everyone could read Greek in all the main churches but they could not all read Latin -- yes
And this would allow some hanky panky not enought to be all to obvious but enough to jack around a few things in the favor of a new fledgeling religion. And this gave them several hundred years to substantiate certain word choices as being "Traditions" so when later the Greek texts began to emerge naturally the word meaning could no only been included in such dictionaries but the erroneous translations based on the whims of the Holy See would be carried on.
You have your interlinear and you can examine the evidence yourself. And add to the list of untranslated words and meditate on the definitions we have been given for them.
Recently I was looking up a familiar text in genesis concerning Abram and faith and justification I will get back to my in a minute but this is too good to be unsaid. I was working on it in the Septuagint and found that Paul had not quoted from the Hebrew but from the septuagent and had not used the Hebrew Paul had used the exact words and tenses. In the Septuagint the word epi is used with pistis well in the Hebrew it reads Abram has faith Beth-Jehovah. Let me say that in the Gr epi is with faith but in the Hebrew the epi is with God. No while Paul quotes from the greek Paul always uses a peculiar phrase in him in Christ in Jesus and that is beth-Jehovah and specifically that is what Abram recognized that caused him to be accounted for righteousness -- Abram realized that the promise of God could not be fulfilled in himself, that if God were to raise a seed for abram. Abram has this revelation and speaks out (prophetically) that he believes in God and God imparts righteousness to Abram.
anyway in a verse nearby God speaks all these blessings over Abram and the Septuagint uses one word for bless 5x's and in the Hebrew I can see two words and they are in several forms -- this is when I realize that the pasage has been translated from the Septuagint and not the Hebrew in the Hebrew it alludes to a prophecy of Chirst as a matter of fact the seed that God is saying that will come through Abram is the coming one (The messiah) and that is what Abram saw in Jehovah by the spirit. I rambling a bit here but the OT in this portion is form the Septuagint and not from the Hebrew and all translations bear the same errors with the 5 blessings. Which means -- tradition over MSS
What am I saying be a little suspicious, and mark what you find different and when you find differences consider what they support, catholic theology or protestant theology?
There because . Since those days they are still a relatively small exclusive group and what you need to know is that
I used to be Catholic. Seemed so empty and hollow. Lots of cerimony and rituals, but so devoid of real spiritual fulfillment. Just personal observation Kitten. I am much happier as a Baptist and can concentrate soley on scripture and much deeper Christian relationships than I had ever experienced in the Catholic Church. I am aware though that not every parish is alike.
Just a question to you though...do you consider the Hail Mary praying to Mary? Most say it is not prayer, but I find that hard to understand. To me, prayer is worship.
Thanks for the nice reply. Like your nickname! You sound soft and cuddly! :P
Thank you, Grif. No, we don't pray to Mary. She's just Jesus' relative. Since she is related to Jesus, she is close to him, probably talks to him all the time, knows Him better than anyone. Well, since nobody is really dead, we can still talk to her, through prayer, ask her to put in a good word for us with Jesus. We can go to Jesus directly, too, if we like, but sometimes, we want some extra influence from someone who's good. So, we can ask Mary to help us, just as we would ask a nice relative to pray for us maybe if we are about to go into surgery. Our choice. But definitely not the same as asking Mary to BE God.
OK. That is pretty much in line with what I was thinking.
But now I think of the Pharasees talking to Jesus and asking about which wife a man will be married to if he has multiple on earth after he is widowed. Jesus responds in such a way as to state that there will be no man and wife relationship in heaven...we will all only be children of God....brothers and sisters in Christ. Relationships like what we experience on earth won't be that way in heaven if I understand things correctly. So based on that I am reluctant to believe that Mary would have any greater pull that other believers in Christ. I also think of Jesus teaching of Lararus and the rich man that describes the void between here and paradise that is not able to be crossed. Since I don't believe scripture states that Mary was sinless, I don't believe in her diety and I don't think she can bridge that void.
To me praying is sacred. I tried to find the verse tonight that states we are only to have one intercessor (I though intercessor was the term I remembered...but appearantly not) and that was Christ. But now that I can't find it I can't back up my statement. :(
I guess I believe that when people don't spend their spiritual energies on anything other than God, they are pushing him away.
Thank you for your reply. I'm afraid we won't agree but have a good time on FR...addictive, no? :)
"For the sake of accuracy: Fatima is considered private revelation and is not a part of Catholic doctrine. As for me, I believe the apparitions to be true, but the Church does not require my belief."
I've been told and read that your Pope believes this is true.
I'm sure you mean well but I don't see the Judeo Christian God using this kind of means to get His message across. It's akin to spiritual slight of hand. Dead people don't talk back.
Worth another bump for those who didn't see this posted yet.
I'm not sure about that, If you pray to a God (In this case the goddess Durga)and your village is saved not once but twice while other villages with people of different religions are wiped out, I would think you would stick with the God that works
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