Marine jailed for refusing to pick up gun

NJ.com ^ | 1/05/05 | ESTES THOMPSON, AP

[DoughtyOne]

Thanks for the comments folks.

Adventists served in Vietnam as non-combatant medics. I don't know the requirements these days to serve in that capacity, but I don't believe the true Adventist non-combatant is seeking to duck exposure to danger. It would unrealistic to say that none did. A certain percentage of every group represented probably did.

The field medic in Vietnam wasn't exactly a cush position.

I view this guy's stance to be misguided. I don't think he's doing it to go the easy route. This could haunt him for a long time. Seven months in the brig isn't going to be a breeze.

[Ethan_Allen]

'If Christians can't sign on to that, they sure don't read the Bible I do.'

Apparently not.....

Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.....

Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom012.html#21
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Rom/12/21.html

Luk 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.....

Luk 22:38 — And they said, Lord, behold, here [are] two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Luk/Luk022.html#38
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Luk/22/38.html [They weren't going on a crusade with two swords:

'.....They must now in some degree suffer with their Master; and, when he is gone, they must expect to suffer like him. The servant is not better than his Lord. [1.] They must not now expect that their friends would be so kind and generous to them as they had been; and therefore, He that has a purse, let him take it, for he may have occasion for it, and for all the good husbandry he can use. [2.] They must now expect that their enemies would be more fierce upon them than they had been, and they would need magazines as well as stores: He that has no sword wherewith to defend himself against robbers and assassins (2 Co. 11:26) will find a great want of it, and will be ready to wish, some time or other, that he had sold his garment and bought one. This is intended only to show that the times would be very perilous, so that no man would think himself safe if he had not a sword by his side. But the sword of the Spirit is the sword which the disciples of Christ must furnish themselves with. Christ having suffered for us, we must arm ourselves with the same mind (1 Peter 4:1), arm ourselves with an expectation of trouble, that it may not be a surprise to us, and with a holy resignation to the will of God in it, that there may be no opposition in us to it: and then we are better prepared than if we had sold a coat to buy a sword. The disciples hereupon enquire what strength they had, and find they had among them two swords (v. 38), of which one was Peter’s. The Galileans generally travelled with swords. Christ wore none himself, but he was not against his disciples’ wearing them. But he intimates how little he would have them depend upon this when he saith, It is enough, which some think is spoken ironically: "Two swords among twelve men! you are bravely armed indeed when our enemies are now coming out against us in great multitudes, and every one with a sword!’’ Yet two swords are sufficient for those who need none, having God himself to be the shield of their help and the sword of their excellency, Deu. 33:29.......' Matthew Henry http://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/mhc/Luk/Luk022.html

Mat 26:52 — Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Mat/26/52.html

2Cr 10:4 — (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/2Cr/10/4.html

Jer 23:29 — [Is] not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer [that] breaketh the rock in pieces? http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Jer/23/29.html

Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Hbr/4/12.html

Nowhere in my Bible do I see where Jesus calls CHRISTIANS to take part in war. On the contrary HIS LAST WORDS before His Ascension:

Mar 16:15 — And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Mar/16/15.html

Maybe if we had paid more attention to THAT, there wouldn't be so much evil to contend with in the world today.

Sorry that's not the popular view. God's Word never was:

Mar 7:13 — Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Mar/7/13.html

Mat 15:6 — And honour not his father or his mother, [he shall be free]. **** Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Mat/15/6.html
___________________________________________________________

Psa 20:7 Some [trust] in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Psa/Psa020.html#7
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Psa/20/7.html

Now, do what you want, but if it's not of God, just don't be calling it 'CHRISTian':

2Cr 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2Cr/2Cr006.html#3

and for your own sake, take note:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gal/Gal001.html#9

[Ethan_Allen]

'The church then determined that the bearing of arms should be "a matter of individual conscience," backing away from their initial official church position. ****They have instead encouraged obedience to civil authorities and focused on offering spiritual support to members in service. *** '
_________________________________________________________

Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. *** For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

Jam 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

Jam 1:8 **** A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jam/Jam001.html#8


Luk 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Luk/16/13.html

Luk 11:23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Luk/11/23.html

Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Jhn 14:15 — If ye love me, keep my commandments. **** http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Jhn/14/15.html



Mat 17:25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do THE KINGS OF THE EARTH [ http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Psa/Psa002.html#2 ] take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

Mat 17:26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

Mat 17:27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.


Mat 22:21 — They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, **** Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's:

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Dan 3:16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we [are] not careful to answer thee in this matter.

Dan 3:17 If it be [so], our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver [us] out of thine hand, O king.

Dan 3:18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up. [GET THAT GOLD FRINGE OFF MY FLAG!]
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Mat/22/21.html


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Act 5:29 Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, *** We ought to obey God rather than men.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Act/Act005.html#29
*** http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Act/5/29.html

'Each U.S. Citizen has the SOVEREIGN RIGHTS of an "Individual" Nation "GUARANTEED" to them by The United States Constitution!This fact alone makes the united States of America the "only" multitude of Nations in existence. Genesis 48:19'

[GET THAT GOLD FRINGE OFF MY FLAG!]

See also: http://www.historicist.com/ojnj/index.htm

And if the Son hath made you free, ye shall be free indeed!

[jaydubya2]

In other news: AP Reporter Jailed for Calling a Rifle a "Gun".

[Ethan_Allen]

Incidentally.....

'THE NEW WORLD DISORDER

GIs can be forced to wear U.N. beret
Federal judge upholds court martial of soldier who refused orders

December 25, 2004

© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

The U.S. military can force its personnel to wear the blue beret of the United Nations and serve under the world body's command, a federal judge ruled.

Judge Paul Friedman upheld the military's conviction of former Army specialist Michael New, who refused to don the U.N. cap and shoulder patch and to serve in a peacekeeping mission in Macedonia nearly 10 years ago, the New York Sun reported......' http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42102

"We are not going to achieve a new world order without paying for it in blood as well as in words and money."

"In Defense of the World Order...
US Soldiers would have to kill and die"

*Aurthur Schlesinger, Jr., July / August '95 Foreign Affairs - CFR's Flagship Publication

[blackie]

Thanks Deadeye for all of the good stuff you've posted ~ I was raised a SDA but was never a CO ~ I admire and respect those who do what these unarmed heros do!

[DoughtyOne]

Thanks Ethan, but no sale. Yes we should be long-suffering with our enemies, but a door mat? No.

Please refrence the children of Israel and their dealings with the Cannanites. Remember the walls of Jerico. Remember Gideon. Remember Sampson and his dealings with God. Remember that God gave him strength in the end, even after he had turned his back on God countless times.

There are many places in the Bible where He sanctions military type operations. I have no reason to think today that He has forsaken that approach to justified defense.

[mrs tiggywinkle]

Thank you.

[DoughtyOne]

And thank you.

[jimthewiz]

The article is a states it differently.

Klimkewicz joined an Adventist church in Jacksonville before he re-enlisted in 2003.

[ZinGirl]

thank you for that link.