Posted on 01/04/2005 12:24:26 PM PST by Keyes2000mt
The words were said countless thousands of times last year as a minister concluded the ceremony. "What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder." But so often man and woman do.
While gay marriage has been roundly condemned in most churches (and rightly so), you will not hear much about divorce. In many cases, if divorce is discussed in church, it's talked about as this horrible circumstance that comes upon people, listed in the same breath as automobile accidents or serious illnesses.
The Bible is quite clear on the issue of divorce. Malachi 2:16 says it clearly, "For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that He hateth putting away (i.e. Divorce)..." Hate's a strong word and Christ reiterates this in the New Testament. Yet, in the church, even in Conservative churches, a man is more likely to feel uncomfortable with pierced ear than with a couple divorces behind him.
There's good reason why the church and conservatives are skittish about this topic. There's no one who doesn't know someone who's been divorced. They fill our church pews every Sunday. We know them to be decent folks who agree with us on a lot of cultural issues. Randall Terry, Newt Gingrich, and Rush Limbaugh have all been divorced.
We also know folks who have been victimized by their ex-spouse: abused, cheated on, and treated like dirt. Or, perhaps you dear reader have had a divorce where you weren't at fault and that you didn't choose.
On the other hand, most Christians know very few homosexuals and even less know homosexuals who'd like to get married. The odds of a pastor offending a large tither whose gay and wants to get married is quite small.
To say our current divorce rate is a national sin is not to say that all divorcees are to be condemned and treated as despicable outcasts. The church should be compassionate, but even as Christ said, "Go and sin no more," It must be proactive in dealing with divorce.
Divorce must be taught against strongly in the church. The church as a community should be dedicated to helping preserve the marriages of the church. Strengthening the marriages of believers should be considered as important if not more so than evangelism. Children of broken homes often wander spiritually and in many cases fall from faith. Thus, a large church may win 100 converts, but if it produces 40 broken homes in the same year that leads to 100 angry and embittered children, it is not truly building the Kingdom of God.
Also, church discipline should be used when appropriate for those who divorce without just cause and refuse reconciliation efforts. Watching Cornerstone Television, I saw former NFL player and Pastor of Antioch Bible Church Ken Hutcherson. He organized the Mayday for Marriage rally in Washington, DC opposing gay marriage. Call him anything you like, but don't call him a gay-hating hypocrite. Hutcherson said that in the past year, he'd censured five members of the church, including some for ending marriages without just cause.
The structure of most Protestant Churches is anti-authoritarian and the idea of church discipline is scary to most of us as we've heard horror stories about how cults have abused it. However, desperate times call for desperate measures and a biblical use of church discipline could aid in preserving marriages.
Secular Action
The devastating number of divorces is an area where the interests of church and state collide. Studies have shown that divorces lead to economic problems for states and communities, as well as the long term problems that come from children of broken marriages. It's no accident that the richest states are those with the lowest divorce rates.
The fact is that anyone who finds themselves in a bad marriage made a mistake at one time or another. Half the time, their biggest mistake was getting married in the first place. To prevent these bad matches or to help get the marriage off on a better start, marrying couples should be required to undergo several hours of marriage classes and/or marital counseling from a licensed minister or marriage counselor.
Secondly, no-fault divorce laws must be reformed. Marriage is the most important relationship a person has legally, yet it has all the force and effect of a month-to-month lease thanks to no-fault divorce laws. The laws should be reformed so a no-fault divorce can only be obtained if both parties consent. This would also reduce the court costs associated with issues of custody and division of the property as a no-fault divorce could only be obtained if both parties were agreed on it.
Those who believe in gay marriage have pointed to divorce as an argument against those who seek to protect marriage from same sex unions. I reject the argument that one evil prospering requires that we allow another blow to traditional family values. However, preserving the family is about more than one single issue and if we're going to be serious about it, we have to address all the issues that threaten the survival of the Family.
Even in the late '40s and '50s,St John the Divine didn't take boys until they were 8 or 9 and I know of NO girls' school that took anyone that young.
Groton took them at 11.
Convent schools didn't take boarding 7 year olds!
She didn't come home for Thanksgiving and Easter and mid break and which summer camp went THAT long? Even back when my mother went to summer camp,it didn't last three months.
Wonderful and congrats!
You deserve a ton of credit.
Over protective daddies! LOL
Head - fourth point of contact.
Some people don't live in reality! :-)
Your lack of etiquette in talking about someone with out pinging the person says much about your "sympathy"
I don't need your "sympathy".........my divorce was perfectly moral and perfectly right, contrary to your and my ex husband's opinions.
Married when I was 26/27 . . . let's see . . . 1947 from 1974 . . . = 27. Wife was 21.
The 6 years difference was a surprisingly larger issue than I expected.
One evening we were watching the classic VICTORY AT SEA. When the credits were rolling at the end, she turns to me and says:
"So, who won the Japanese American war, anyway?"
I was speechless.
I think I finally asked in a funky voice if I had slanted eyes or some such silliness.
ROFL!!!!!!!!!
Absolutely. That's why we're having this discussion. Personally, the New Testament seems perfectly clear on the subject, but I'm not a Biblical scholar or a minister.
I also cannot imagine him thinking of saving your life by divorce as a sin, either
See, that's the problem I'm having with the position Gabz has taken. Many people have sacrificed their lives for less than this. Think of the early Church fathers and saints. All they had to do was recant their faith publicly to a Roman official, and they would have been spared the most horrible tortures imaginable. They could have merely apologized to God afterwards and resumed a secret Christian life, but they chose death and martyrdom instead.
Now, I'm absolutely not suggesting that Gabz or anyone else should have to follow their example. I know myself well enough to know that I couldn't (or wouldn't).
However, from a theological point of view, the question of whether one's life is at stake is not dispositive. Something is either a sin, or it isn't. Said another way, the ends do not justify the means.
She later said she was never in love with me but married me because she thought I was her last chance.
Ugh.
Well,if anything I've said is "fuzzy",just ask me to explain and I'll do the best I am able,to write more cogently. :-)
OMG!
LOL.
sorry buddy boy........the only sin in this entire discussion is your naivete.
I've read and comprehended every word you have written to me.......and while you may not have called me a "sinner" your implications have been there, including in this response to me.
My decision to leave my ex-husband and file for divorce was 100% sinless........no matter what you choose to believe. My sin was in not having done it 2 years prior to when I did.
“I have to say that your own conduct leaves something to be desired.”
Pot, kettle, black.
“Calling someone a Jezebel”
I didn’t call anyone a Jezebel, so don’t be making false accusations.
“Did you ever consider that God may possibly have more insight as to what to do here than you”
I do. I don’t think you do.
“It is not for you to judge who the sinner is, and whether or not they have repented their sins.”
That’s the same line of bogus calumny you’ve been using the whole thread to try and discredit those whose beliefs differ from yours. In a discussion of this nature, people are allowed to argue the case for their beliefs even if you don’t like it. Instead of responding to those arguments in a rational, thoughtful fashion, you have tried to discredit them and suppress their expression by mischaracterizing them as “judging,” and calling those who hold those beliefs “sanctimonious, hard hearted, and dogmatic.”
“That is between us and God, as you well know.”
What’s the title of this thread? “The Sin of Divorce.” What’s the subject? Discussing whether or not divorce is a sin, and under what circumstances. The “ayes” have just as much standing to present their case as you “nays” have. The difference is that the “ayes” have presented their case, while you “nays” have spent all your time driveling about how awful the “ayes” are.
If you want to keep it between you and God, then you shouldn’t be posting to this thread, because the purpose of this thread is to discuss the issue. When you come on here and start dumping all over people whose beliefs differ from yours, you make it between you and whoever wants to respond.
“What I AM certain of is that I don't like seeing what I have seen.”
And the reason I posted in the first place was because what I had seen from you and your little clique of “nays” was about to make me puke, so don’t be criticizing the behavior of others until you do something about that.
“If you truly believe that your way is better, perhaps you should set a better example”
Perhaps I should. Instead, I responded in the same, nasty tone that you and the others have used toward people who don’t believe in divorce. It’s a weakness of mine. I can take only so much.
I think I disagree about the most impactful prevention.
It's better to instill a healthy core in individuals. Then all manner of sinful traps will be avoided even when presented.
It's virtually impossible to keep evil critters away from potential victims. It is doable to rear children with a God focused, Spirit-led internal center, compass, focus which resists all manner of evils.
Thank you. :-)
Gotta love those overprotective daddies!!!
I'm thankful daddy is willing to acknowlege he was not the kind of guy he wants his daughter to date!!!!
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