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IMHO this is not even close to a valid argument.

Awww, not even close? I thought I was in the same county, at least! ;-)

You can't compare a "few" whacked out, so called Christians, who claim to do the will of God by killing those that murder babies, to a cult that orders their followers to kill all infidels.

And I've heard Muslims say the same about the Qutb followers. Obviously, there are a "few" whacked out Christians who don't follow what a God would truly want. What makes them act that way, though? Interpretation.

Obviously, though Islam is technically against "aggression" (e.g., "Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors."), the imams use interpretation to allow what we (and any sane outside observer) see as pre-emptive attacks on us. I should give credit to the other poster (Fred Nerks? FreeReign? Shoot, can't find it!) who pointed this out earlier. Although we can't stop them from the phony justifications, we can at least force them to stretch quite a bit, not make it easy on them.

Muslims justify their terrorism because it is commanded of them.

And so do Christian terrorists. My point is not that they are the same--except from their warped point of view. And what makes them act? Their warped point of view, not our view! In fact, you use the words "...in their eyes...", which is exactly on target.

So, what's the logical conclusion? Let's look at the incitement by the imams, for one. That's why I asked Fred Nerks about the case he mentioned. While I am extremely leery of interfering in a religious teachings, if there are clear cases of incitement or selective interpretation that is inciting violence, then we have laws for that.

Rewmember that this country's law is based on actions, not desires. It's legal to want to want something you can't have, as long as you don't try to take it illegally. It's legal to want to spread Islam, as long as they don't try to force it. If it were any other way, I'm sure a good chunk of FR could be arrested today for kidnapping ... ;-)

LOL Gondring,

Good use of humor. The Ann Coulter picture was a nice touch. You weren't implying that there are some FReepers here who would attempt to kidnap....never mind, I won't go there.

>>>>And I've heard Muslims say the same about the Qutb followers.<<<<<<
Interesting that you brought Sayyid Qutb up since he was arrested and executed for attempting to overthrow the government.

What would happen to someone attempting to do that here in this Country? CAIR and the ACLU would be all over it and they'd probably win a huge settlement in a law suit.

I have finally discovered, through your last response, why, no matter how long we argue about this, we will NEVER agree. Our view of what the Koran teaches is drastically different.

You quote "Allah loveth not aggressors"

Well, I have a few quotes of my own from the Koran:

4:101 "... For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."

[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

9:5 "... fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) ..."

47:4 "Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks, at length when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them) ... but if it had been God's will, he could certainly have exacted retribution from them (himself), but (he lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of God, he will never let their deeds be lost."

I could go on but I think you get the point. As long as we disagree with their intent, there is no way we can ever agree on a solution.

Step back a minute and look at terrorism through out the world. Who is behind almost all of it?

You ask me why some "whacked out" Christians don't follow God's teachings and commit heinous acts? So I guess with my background in criminology and deviant behavior, I'm suppose to be able to answer that? I can give you my opinion.

There are a lot of "crazy" people out there. Just because someone says they are a Christian, doesn't make it so. There are criminals who commit repulsive acts saying they were told by God to do it. That doesn't mean it's true.
I can't tell you why people commit crime. There are volumes of books written about that. I don't think it's relevant to this discussion.

You mention Christain terrorists. What are you referring to? The abortion bombings? I wouldn't classify them as Christain terrorists since they aren't following the teachings of the Bible. They are criminals. BTW, how many of these so called Christain terrorists have struck through out the world in an organized campaign?

I really don't think you can justify comparing the two, as there is no comparison.

I would almost guarantee you, if there were a group of people, claiming to be Christians, bombing baby killing clinics in the name of God, the majority on FR as well as Christians throughout the world, would be the FIRST to condemn such action. As Christains we are to change people's hearts and minds, not kill those who are blind to the truth.

Do you see any such outrage from the members of the Islamic followers? If I recall, I saw a lot more rejoicing in the streets on 9/11 and heard very little condemnation of those terrorist acts from Muslims.

>>>>It's legal to want to spread Islam, as long as they don't try to force it.<<<<<<

It appears to me, they do intend to force it. Are Muslims allowed to reject Islam and not fear for their life? Is there free choice for them? When their numbers get larger here, will there be free choice for us?

If the intent of Islam is to overthrow our government and impose Islamic Law, why IS it legal to spread it here?

I want to end here with saying I appreciate you keeping this to a civil debate and difference of opinion, rather than the yelling and name calling that seems to be hijacking this thread.