Winds, ice motion root cause of decline in sea ice, not warmer temperatures

University of Washington News ^ | Dec. 16, 2004 | Sandra Hines

[Kurt_D]

A few days ago I finished Crichton's "State of Fear". A very entertaining way to catch up on your sciences while reading a great thriller.

Global warming is a farce.

[Rodney King]

I bet we'll see this on the front page of the NY Times tomorrow. /sarcasm.

[CedarDave]

...Ignatius Rigor, a mathematician with the UW's Applied Physics Laboratory and a presenter at the American Geophysical Union's annual fall meeting this week in San Francisco.

You say global warming is NOT responsible for thinning Artic sea ice? Sorry, this theory does not fit the liberal weenies version of how things should be. No tenure for you at UW.

[muawiyah]

Global warming is hardly a farce. Not too long ago (geologically speaking) my hometown was under a 2 mile deep sheet of ice. These days you can hardly find a half-mile deep icecap anywhere!

The issue is about the degree of measurable warming that can be attributed to human activity, and within that activity, what activity is most guilty.

My personal selection is the extension of irrigation to otherwise barren, dry lands. Water vapor is a tremendous greenhouse gas and increasing the amount of water vapor has to have an impact. Others believe it's your SUV. My elderly aunt Minnie believes it's all those coal furnaces used to heat the slum dwellers in New York City.

So many questions, so little time.

[Kurt_D]

Let's rephrase it... global warming is not an articial phenomenon. At most what we have is LOCAL temperature changes. In some places, temperatures are rising... while in other spots temperatures are falling. Overall urban areas - where concrete and heating is abundant - are experiencing upward pressure on its temperature.

[muawiyah]

Your typical stone front concrete and blacktop urban landscape should actually be cooler than the original forest or field it replaced provided the addition of concrete was the only change. After all, plants always make any area warmer than it would otherwise be. For example, the Sahara desert is cooler now than it was 7000 years ago when it was a well watered plant infested big game hunters paradise. What's happened is it cooled down a bit and the monsoon rains failed to come inland. In a short while all the plants were dead.

If cities and towns are warmer than the surrounding countryside it's not because they are "heat islands". Rather, it's because they have a lot more water vapor surrounding them. Irrigated farmland should also be warmer (urban or not, eh), from the same cause.

What we have is warming at the lowest elevations, in general, and cooling when you get up there several thousand feet.

[Kurt_D]

I am basing my opinion on the data presented by Michael Crichton's "State of Fear". He actually bothered to include REAL scientific facts - with footnotes and everything - to make his novel more appealing.

[Blue Collar Christian]

"Global warming is a farce."

But it's the closest thing the libs have to the truth!

[WildTurkey]

Your typical stone front concrete and blacktop urban landscape should actually be cooler than the original forest or field it replaced provided the addition of concrete was the only change.

You haven't been to Phoenix in the summer time.

[WildTurkey]

After all, plants always make any area warmer than it would otherwise be. For example, the Sahara desert is cooler now than it was 7000 years ago when it was a well watered plant infested big game hunters paradise. What's happened is it cooled down a bit and the monsoon rains failed to come inland. In a short while all the plants were dead.

You say that the plants make it warmer but you say that it cooled down and THEN the plants died. Seems like you have it backwards.

[REDWOOD99]

1990's? So it's Clinton's fault!

[WildTurkey]

If cities and towns are warmer than the surrounding countryside it's not because they are "heat islands". Rather, it's because they have a lot more water vapor surrounding them.

No, it's because we have all that concrete and asphalt absorbing the heat and all the AC's pouring out heat and all the cars radiating heat and all the people massed together.

[muawiyah]

No, it cooled a "little". That was just enough for the monsoons to fail. Then ALL the plants died, and that was the end of the show.

A German research team believes that it should be possible to warm up the Sahara by raising special plants that will hold in the water vapor. Given enough warmth, the monsoons should return and the place could become very productive again.

[beavus]

I admit that I don't entirely understand what is being said in this article. Apparently there are observed oscillations in atmospheric pressure at the poles which cause winds that begin to blow the ice away, but not in a noticable way until a few years after the winds start blowing? Do I have that right?

[muawiyah]

Now what did I say? I said if the only change were the elimination of the plants and the addition of concrete these places should actually be cooler.

As an example I used the Sahara desert.

You are adding elements I didn't include, e.g. air conditioners, cars, etc.

The concrete and bare road surfaces do not retain heat as well as a well watered jungle.

You use solar mass (big rocks, concrete walls, etc.) to slow down the flow of heat into your home. You work it right, as I have, and you get heat at night and cool during the day. In the long run a whole bunch of solar mass will run cooler than a forest.

[WildTurkey]

No, it cooled a "little". That was just enough for the monsoons to fail. Then ALL the plants died, and that was the end of the show.

Oh. So the South American rain forests are still cooling down. I will have to remember to take my heavy coat next time.

[muawiyah]

I've been to Phoenix in the summertime. I've also been to Albuquerque!

We are talking about average annual temperature. BTW, Phoenix benefits from monsoon rains.