Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

New Economy? I'm not really sold...
Washington Post ^ | 12/29/04 | lacaprup

Posted on 12/29/2004 8:59:51 AM PST by lacaprup

The Next Economy By Robert J. Samuelson Wednesday, December 29, 2004; Page A19 We are undergoing a profound economic transformation that is barely recognized. This quiet upheaval does not originate in some breathtaking technology but rather in the fading power of forces that have shaped American prosperity for decades and, in some cases, since World War II. As their influence diminishes, the economy will depend increasingly on new patterns of spending and investment that are still only dimly apparent. It is unclear whether these will deliver superior increases in living standards and personal security. What is clear is that the old economic order is passing.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: bookreview; nexteconomy; robertsamuelson
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-39 next last
I'm not so sure of this. Manufacturing and industrial exports as the future of the US economy? It sounds strikingly like the past to me. If I've learned anything from growing up in the shadow of the huge, abandoned Bethlehem Steel site in Buffalo, NY it's that the US economy is no longer the industrial one it was. We are a service and IT econmy now, IMHO.
1 posted on 12/29/2004 8:59:53 AM PST by lacaprup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: lacaprup

Most of IT will be outsourced within the next 5 years.


2 posted on 12/29/2004 9:00:57 AM PST by soccer_linux_mozilla (I believe in the potential of Open Source software: Linux, Mozilla, Firefox, OpenOffice,etc)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: soccer_linux_mozilla
As far as technician help for your PC maybe, but you don't think that the coming voice-over IP boom will keep IT firmly in the US for at least another decade?
3 posted on 12/29/2004 9:07:38 AM PST by lacaprup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: lacaprup
...but you don't think that the coming voice-over IP boom will keep IT firmly in the US for at least another decade?

Do you mean for support of the VOIP networks here in the U.S.?

4 posted on 12/29/2004 9:09:22 AM PST by AreaMan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: soccer_linux_mozilla
Most of IT will be outsourced within the next 5 years.

And a "service economy" doesn't create wealth...
It merely redistributes and eventually dissipates wealth as consumption...
It is an economy that in decline,
and policies should be formulated to avoid, rather than encourage, that outcome.

5 posted on 12/29/2004 9:12:16 AM PST by Willie Green
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: lacaprup
The digital economy took a huge boost when the internet was "discovered" by the masses 95. Thats when computers learned how to communicate seamlessly and the WWW killer ap landed.

There is another wave set to happen where computers learn how to know their location. The technology is GPS, but the "killer app" has yet to make itself known. One hint is the coming wide acceptance of self steered farm tractors. Lawn mowers will be next.

It may take a bit longer for this digital wave to hit than the internet. But in the end it has the potential to effect an even larger part of our lives.

My point is that this technology will be developed and adopted first in the US. That's what I'm doing for a living now.

The outsourcing "crisis", isn't. The digital economy is just beginning.

6 posted on 12/29/2004 9:19:34 AM PST by narby
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: lacaprup
Manufacturing and industrial exports as the future of the US economy?

It's a set-up story. When it fails to come to fruition by February, they'll run stories about Bush's failure to meet expectations.

7 posted on 12/29/2004 9:19:35 AM PST by Teacher317
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Teacher317
It's a set-up story. When it fails to come to fruition by February, they'll run stories about Bush's failure to meet expectations.--teacher317

That's kind of how I was leaning. The US economy has been getting away from manufacturing over the last 3 decades, how does he expect us to return to it. I'm sure the article's author would cite things like Bush's steel tariff, but I saw that as a more politically motivated move rather than an economic one.
8 posted on 12/29/2004 9:26:17 AM PST by lacaprup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green
And a "service economy" doesn't create wealth...

Willie, you're so 19th century.

Your statement is true, so long as you define "wealth" as physical stuff that must be manufactured. I don't limit wealth just to stuff. Wealth is whatever it is I want, even the fact that I live in a nice location. The house I live in would be worth one third in many other places. But my "wealth" is tripled because of where my house is.

If I desire a "service", then my acquiring that service increases my wealth. I may not be able to sell it again, if for example that service was entertainment. But I still got something I wanted, and I was willing to trade dollars to get it.

Once you have a roof over your head and food in your mouth, you can define everything else as a "service". Upgrades to your house and fine wines are "services" that I didn't need to survive. And I consider myself wealthier because I have a good house location and more good food that I need.

I'm sure all I've said isn't strictly proper economic theory. But that's my opinion.

The limits of a "service" economy are that it is much harder to trade between people. But because of high technology, the need to trade anything at all to attain the things I realy need is much lower.

If you believe in capitalist theory, then you know that all of this is self-regulating anyway. Once the cost of goods that we want is higher, we will by definition be forced to manufacture tradable goods to exchange for it.

Don't worry, be happy. The world isn't coming to an end.

9 posted on 12/29/2004 9:35:07 AM PST by narby
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: narby
Your statement is true, so long as you define "wealth" as physical stuff that must be manufactured. I don't limit wealth just to stuff. Wealth is whatever it is I want...

Gee, narby, where have we heard THAT before???

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
Nothing to kill or die for
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You, you may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one


10 posted on 12/29/2004 9:45:35 AM PST by Willie Green
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green
a "service economy" doesn't create wealth...

When my Dad was a kid everyone said that agriculture was important and manufacturing wasn't.  Most people have finally come to understand that one tractor factory can make a farm grow what used to come from a hundred farms. 

These days a good design consulting firm can increase that tractor factory's output one hundred fold.  I'm not holding my breath waiting for widespread applause-- I'll be satisfied that my design firm cuts a tidy profit.

11 posted on 12/29/2004 9:52:12 AM PST by expat_panama
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: expat_panama
When my Dad was a kid everyone said that agriculture was important and manufacturing wasn't.

What are you trying to tell us?

That your Dad was born before the Industrial Revolution?

Sometime in the 18th Century perhaps???

BS.

12 posted on 12/29/2004 9:55:36 AM PST by Willie Green
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green
In 1901 no airplane had flown, no radio show had aired, and the White House still had an Out House.  The bulk of the population (including my Dad) lived on farms even though the bulk of the economy had long since gone over to manufacturing.  My Dad used to tell me that everyone used to think that the farmer didn't need anyone or anything from the city because all you really needed was food.  They were wrong-- they couldn't pay the bills and the bank foreclosed.

These days lot's of people are swept away by some romantic yearning for our manufacturing past.  That's all well and good but the rest of us have to earn a living.

13 posted on 12/29/2004 10:05:29 AM PST by expat_panama
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: expat_panama
My Dad used to tell me that everyone used to think that the farmer didn't need anyone or anything from the city because all you really needed was food. They were wrong-- they couldn't pay the bills and the bank foreclosed.

Well if they owed the bank money and had bills to pay, they obviously weren't practicing the self-sufficiency that they preached.

These days lot's of people are swept away by some romantic yearning for our manufacturing past. That's all well and good but the rest of us have to earn a living.

Nothing "romatic" about it whatsoever.
Yeah, you DO have to EARN a living.
You can't do that with a "service economy"
Services merely redistribute and eventually dissipate wealth as consumption.
You need to add-value and create wealth in industries like farming, forestry, construction, manufacturing, mining in order to create goods to TRADE for the goods we import. If you don't, then the service economy merely generates a TRADE DEFICIT, plunging us into debt and bankruptcy, just like your Dad's friends.

14 posted on 12/29/2004 10:20:02 AM PST by Willie Green
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green
you DO have to EARN a living.  You can't do that with a "service economy"

Look, I got no problem with the way things are.   The mean things you say about my service sector job may make me feel bad but I cry all the way to the bank.  

FWIW, for decades engineers like me used to bellyache that our job was considered part of the service sector while our construction and mining projects were considered manufacturing.  We got over it.

BTW, just in case we don't get in another argument this week, a very happy new year to you an yours ;-))

15 posted on 12/29/2004 10:38:20 AM PST by expat_panama
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: expat_panama
The mean things you say about my service sector job may make me feel bad but I cry all the way to the bank.

There's nothing "Bad" or "Evil" about people who work in the service sector.
While many service jobs may be sneered at because of low-wages and benefits, other service occupations clearly improve our lives tremendously, such as the medical professions. However, the service sector CANNOT provide a foundation for a thriving and prosperous economy. We enjoy those services as a result of engaging competitively in the value-added sectors such as agriculture, manufacturing, construction, etc.

Mining is an excellent example: when miner's hit the "mother lode", the town thrives and service occupations boom in the mining town. But when the mine is played out and closes, the service jobs also collapse and a Ghost Town is created. "Service economies" are economies that are in decline. Simple as that.

16 posted on 12/29/2004 11:07:26 AM PST by Willie Green (And a Happy New Year to you as well!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: soccer_linux_mozilla

No it won't. IT is already coming back on shore. Offshoring is a big pain in the ass and requires incredible skills in project management to be done successfully. Most of the companies that seek cost cutting as a method to grow profits are too stupid to effectively manage a project being done in another country, those most of these projects are failing miserably. IT is still doing quite well right here in America and that won't be changing any time soon.


17 posted on 12/29/2004 11:11:45 AM PST by discostu (mime is money)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green

The hell we don't earn our living in the service economy. You know absolutely nothign about it, you never have. You're the most fuill of crap person on FR. You come work 4 80 hour weeks in a row to get a new software package out ontime AND in good quality and tell me again that living isn't earned.

We do add value, we turn random electrons into highly useful software that makes the entire world run smoother. Your beloved trains couldn't get out of their stations if it wasn't for the service economy. A train without a switching system is a crash.


18 posted on 12/29/2004 11:16:04 AM PST by discostu (mime is money)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green
You're probably right that manufacturing is the "foundation for a thriving and prosperous economy" IOW, it helps our service sector jobs a lot.  Example: General Motors largest single supplier isn't steel or plastic, it's insurance.  OTOH, it reminds me of the lethargic fire dept that arrived in time to same the building foundation.  Big deal--  just not nearly enough to live on.
19 posted on 12/29/2004 1:42:45 PM PST by expat_panama
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: expat_panama
Example: General Motors largest single supplier isn't steel or plastic, it's insurance.

Baloney.

20 posted on 12/29/2004 1:53:26 PM PST by Willie Green
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-39 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson