Packers president ignoring U.S. Flag Code

ESPN and AP ^ | 12/28/2004 | staff

[wjersey]

Some war veterans in the Green Bay area were offended Sunday when the Packers flew the U.S. flag at half-staff at Lambeau Field in honor of the late Reggie White, the Green Bay Press Gazette reported Tuesday.

Ron Sager of Appleton, founder of the Fox Valley Vietnam Veterans Association, said the honor is reserved for those who have served or made a sacrifice for their country.

"It does cheapen the reason" for flying the flag at half-staff, Sager told the paper. "Obviously (Packers president] Bob Harlan was thinking that this is something he could use to pay tribute to White, but unfortunately he is not familiar with the etiquette."

"As much as I appreciated Reggie White, not only for his football playing but his character off the field, I don't believe the U.S. flag should be flown at [half-staff] for anyone unless it is authorized by our government. It sort of denigrates the service of those in Iraq and Afghanistan who have lost their lives."

According to the U.S. Flag Code, which spells out the rules of flag etiquette, the American flag can be flown at half-staff only upon a directive of either the president or governor and on Memorial Day. The code also specifies who qualifies for the honor. Football players are not on the list.

Harlan told the paper he has ordered the flag lowered for others without anyone raising any objections.

"We have done this through the years and we are going to continue to do it," Harlan said Monday. "I would hear from more fans who are upset with me if I didn't do it than if I did. Is that what you are getting at, that we are not obeying the flag codes? Well, we are going to do it."

However, Harlan said he has ordered the flag lowered for others associated with the Packers organization without objections. He did acknowledge, though, that the flags aren't lowered when a local soldier is killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.

But Harlan told PackerNews.com that the Packers have done their part to honor local veterans.

"We honored the veterans," Harlan told the Web site. "[In the season opener against Seattle] we had all the families here from Wisconsin who lost a loved one in the war and we honored them, so if you want to make a big deal over this, go ahead and do it."

A two-time NFL Defensive Player of the Year and ordained minister who was known as the "Minister of Defense," White played 15 seasons with Philadelphia, Green Bay and Carolina. He retired after the 2000 season as the NFL's career sacks leader with 198. The mark was later surpassed by Bruce Smith.

White signed as a free agent with Green Bay in 1993 for $17 million over four years. His signing, along Green Bay's trade for quarterback Brett Favre, helped make the Packers NFL champions again.

The Packers are exploring other ways to honor White at their wild-card playoff game this weekend. Next year, they plan to make him the fifth Packers player to have his jersey retired, joining Don Hutson, Tony Canadeo, Ray Nitschke and Bart Starr.

[wjersey]

I'm not sure what the right answer is.

[The Teen Conservative]

The right response is that the vets are right. It's the law, why disobey it stubbornly?

[Texas_Jarhead]

The Packers president comes across as somewhat arrogant IMO. When in doubt follow U.S. Flag Code.

[Sloth]

I don't think it's worth raising a stink over.

[Wheens]

At my golf club the flag is lowered to half mast every time a member or member's spouse dies. Lowered from time of death notification until funeral/memorial. I'm pretty sure this is a custom at most country clubs.

[uncleshag]

Maybe fly his jersey at half mast?
I don't know.
But Old Glory? nah.

[Mr Cobol]

You abviously aren't a veteran.

[nhoward14]

I thought the flag code allowed for flying the flag at half staff when deemed appropriate by local custom. My university flies the flag at half staff whenever a former or current member of the faculty or staff or a current student dies.

[mrfixit514]

I don't think it's worth raising a stink over.

Yeah. It's just our national flag. And the law. And it has to do with honoring "real" heroes and not those who get paid WELL to entertain us. But other than that, it is not worth raising a stink over. /sarcasm

[Jackknife]

The Packers president comes across as somewhat arrogant IMO. When in doubt follow U.S. Flag Code.

I agree. The flag needs more respect than this.

U.S. Flag Code : Title 36 Chapter 10

[Recon by Fire]

Private citizens have the right to fly their flags at half staff if they choose.

Just an Observation.

[Northern Yankee]

Apparently, according to Packer officials, this has been done before.

Why not fly the Packer flag at half staff, below the American flag?

[Jackknife]

# (m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff thirty days from the death of the President or a former President; ten days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. As used in this subsection -

* (1) the term 'half-staff' means the position of the flag when it is one-half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff;

* (2) the term 'executive or military department' means any agency listed under sections 101 and 102 of title 5; and

* (3) the term 'Member of Congress' means a Senator, a Representative, a Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico.

[BJungNan]

There is no such thing as flag etiquette anymore. The City of Palos Verdes Estates in California put up two dozen flags at the entrance to the city. Nice gesture. But they did not install lights and the flags flew in the dark each and every night.

Vets and others called the city, even volunteered to take the flags down at night and put them back up in the morning. The city said nope, that is the way we are flying them. In the dark at night. They said, would you rather we not put them up at all. The answer was yes, not if you are not going to fly them properly. They said they are not taking them down.

[jimthewiz]

While I agree wholeheartedly that there is a need to hold to flag etiquette and to honor the flag of the United States (or of any other nation) as much as possible, I disagree with the interpretation of the flag code as stating that only a Governor or President can proclaim that the flag be flown at half mast.

The code says "by order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff. . . " and later "the Governor . . . may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff." It does not stipulate that only a President of Governor may issue such a proclamation.
Instead it provides for the private use of the flag for the mourning of important persons by including the statement "the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law."

The official proportions for the US flag are for the flags used by the government, and vary according to the branch of government. Private citizens can use a flag of any proportion "in accordance with recognized customs or practices".
This is because the flag of the United States is the property of the people. Any use of the flag, not inconsistent with law, that does not disgrace the honor in which the flag is and should be held is a proper and legitimate use of the flag.

Nathan Augustine

http://flagspot.net/flags/xf-nffr.html

[TXnMA]

Small towns in MA do this all the time in honor of the departure of local muckety-mucks. It always offended me.

[Recon by Fire]

Bingo!

[7.62 x 51mm]

Fly The GB Packers flag at half-staff; The US Flag flies full-staff. JMHO...