[Mutiny in the Pakistan army?] - 30 More Pakistani Soldiers to Get Death Penalty for Indiscipline

ISLAMABAD, December 27: As many as 30 Pakistan Army and Air Force personnel are facing the death penalty in several Court Martial proceedings going on in Military Courts in the Kharian Army Cantonment, about 60 miles from Islamabad, highly competent military sources have revealed to South Asia Tribune.

In a remarkable release of confidential information, these sources also gave the details of the Charge Sheet against the only Army soldier sentenced to death by the same military court on October 20, 2004.

Surprisingly the Charge Sheet does not accuse Sepoy Muhammad Islam Siddiqi, Army No 8831068 of any direct participation or involvement in the attack on General Pervez Musharraf in December 2003 near Chaklala Bridge in Rawalpindi, contrary to what was claimed in the official announcement on December 24.

Director General of Pakistan Army’s Inter Services Public Relations, Major General Shaukat Sultan had confirmed on Dec 24 that one Pakistani soldier had been sentenced to death. Confirming the story first broken by Karachi journalist Syed Saleem Shahzad in Asia Times Online on December 21 about the death sentence, Maj. General Sultan had also announced that another soldier had been awarded a 10-year jail sentence. Click to see original Asia Times Story

But military sources are now saying the official version given by ISPR Director General was badly distorted and in fact more than 30 Army and Air Force personnel are have been charged with the same crime and will soon get the same sentence. Announcements about these death sentences will be staggered to minimize the impact.

The ISPR claimed that the death sentence had been given for involvement in the assassination attempt on General Musharraf but actually Sepoy Muhammad Islam Siddiqi had refused to serve in South Waziristan and was at best guilty of violating military discipline along with dozens of others.

The Army prosecutors who did not want to publicly admit that largescale defiance had taken place in South Waziristan where the Army had been deployed against the tribesmen, merged the indiscipline charges against these troops with the assassination attempts on General Musharraf and sought death sentences for the accused.

According to these sources the South Waziristan operation had turned out to be biggest dent in Army discipline when several units declined to be posted in South Waziristan and dozens of troops refused to continue the fight against tribes. The Army top brass was shaken and most of these troops were recalled from the front line.

Convicted Sepoy Islam Siddiqi was among them who was arrested in South Waziristan on defiance and abetting defiance among soldiers and sent to Kharian Cantonment where, after a brief interrogation, he was tried and convicted on October 20, 2004.

Following charges under the Pakistan Army Act (PAA) were read out by a Brigadier who headed the military court:

PAA Section 59: Committing a civil offence, that is to say receiving training in terrorism, In that he, at Bhimber (Azad Jammu and Kashmir) during August 2002, received training in the acts of terrorism, at the “Maasker” a training camp of ‘Jaish-e- Mohammed’ a proscribed organization and thereby committed an offense punishable under sub-section (7) (C) of the Anti Terrorism Act, 1997.

PAA Sec 55 (alternative to first charge): Conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline, in that he at Bhimber (Azad Jammu and Kashmir) during August 2002, improperly attended at a ‘Maasker’, the training camp of a sectarian organization.

PAA Section 31(d): Attempting to seduce a person in the military forces of Pakistan from his allegiance to the Government of Pakistan, in that he at Peshawar, during Feb 2003 attempted to seduce 8839274 Sepoy Hafiz Muhammad Ashfaq of 2 Defence Services Guard Battalion, from his allegiance to the Government of Pakistan.

PAA Section 31(d): Attempting to seduce a person in the military forces of Pakistan from his allegiance to the Government of Pakistan, in that he, at Peshawar during Feb 2003 to January 2004 attempted to seduce 889174 sepoy Hafiz Salah Uddin of 1 Defence Services Guard Company, from his allegiance to the Government of Pakistan.

PAA Section 59: Committing a civil offence that is to say, professing to belong to a proscribed organization, in that he, at Peshawar, Murid and elsewhere, during January 2002 to January 2004 professed to belong to ‘Jaish-e-Mohammad’ a proscribed organization: and thereby committed an offence punishable under section 11-F (2) of the Anti Terrorism Act 1997.

PAA Section 59: Committing a civil offence that is to say being a citizen of Pakistan, departing from Pakistan without passport, in that he, at Pak-Afghan border, during June 1999, being a citizen of Pakistan, departed from Pakistan without a passport to Afghanistan in contravention of Section 3(a) of the Passport Act, 1974 and thereby committed an offence punishable under section 4(1) of the Passport Act, 1974.

PAA Section 55: Conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline at Murid, Peshawar and elsewhere during July 2002 to January 2004, improperly remained associated with a Tanzeem (organization) of Pakistan Air Force personnel, which was advancing the object of eliminating General Pervez Musharraf, the President of
Pakistan.

PAA Section 55 (alternative to seventh charge): Neglect to the prejudice of good order and military discipline in that he, at Murid, Warsak and elsewhere, during July 2002 to January 2004, having known that some personnel belonging to a Tanzeem of Pakistan Air Force had designs to eliminate General Pervez Musharraf, the President of Pakistan neglected to report the same to his superiors.

PAA Section 55: Conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline, in that he, at Peshawar during September-October 2003, improperly received 6 x capsules containing poison from No 3060314 Havaldar Mohammed Younis of 98 Air Defence Regiment with ulterior motives.

Military sources and legal experts contacted by the South Asia Tribune said if these charges were made the basis of the death sentence give to Sepoy Islam Siddiqi, then hundreds or even thousands of Pakistan Army troops could be found guilty and convicted.

These experts said the closest Sepoy Siddiqi came to the assassination attempt on General Musharraf was to get “associated with an organization of Pakistan Air Force personnel, which was advancing the object of eliminating General Pervez Musharraf, the President of Pakistan.” This in no way proves, or even accuses, Siddiqi of having a hand in the unsuccessful attempt on Musharraf.

They said if Siddiqi could be sentenced to death for being associated with the organization which had “designs of eliminating General Musharraf” then the entire organization would have to be found equally guilty and put to death.

Likewise if traveling to Afghanistan without a passport was made the basis of death sentence, the entire tribal population and three-fourth of residents of NWFP could be found guilty of the same crime as no one in the Tribal Areas needs a passport to cross into Afghanistan.

Similarly defying military orders to fight in South Waziristan against fellow tribal citizens could land hundreds of Pakistan Army troops into the same category deserving death penalties.

On a political level the charges against arrested soldiers also confirm that many members of the Pakistan armed forces have been actively training with military Islamic organizations like Jaish Mohammed in Azad Kashmir and other locations within Pakistan.

“This is an implicit admission by the Army that such camps existed and elements of the Army were directly involved in one capacity or another. This could substantiate charges leveled by the Indians of Army’s active support and involvement in the insurgency in Kashmir,” a legal expert said.

Even if these elements were not supported by the top Army brass, it confirms that there were factions within the Army which did not follow the official Army and State policy and that could also turn out to be very damaging for Pakistan.

8	“see the links below:”

Interesting links, here is what I gleaned from them.

Pakistani nuclear forces
This is a report written by Shannon N. Kile, a researcher for a leftist, anti-war think tank in Stockholm (good choice, btw). But even he says: "Some of these weapons are probably stored in unassembled form at dispersed locations". "Some" and "probably"? Hmmm, not exactly ringing endorsement of your "it is a well known fact...".

I see that your expert Kile also says that Pakistan has only "30–50 nuclear weapons", rather than your hyperbole in post #1 of "about a 100 nuclear warheads". You seem to be gaining quite a rep for posting unreliable and hyped claims.

Pakistan Special Weapons Facilities
Almost the same as with your first link, this GlobalSecurity.org webpage says: "Reportedly, most of these weapons are stockpiled as separate uranium and plutonium cores and detonation assemblies". "Reportedly" and "most"? What happened to "it is a well known fact..."? LOL, It looks like they didn't get your memo!

That webpage also says that "Pakistan is believed to [have] somewhere between two and three dozen nuclear weapons". What happened to the "about a 100 nuclear warheads", that you promised us?

Pakistan Moves Nuclear Weapons
Actually, this was a good link and well worth reading, thanks. On the one hand, while this Washington Post article says: "Pakistan's military began relocating critical nuclear weapons components", that one article hardly buttresses your claim that "it is a well known fact...". But on the other hand, it does substantiate your claim that at least some of the Pakistani nuclear warhead stockpile has, for security reasons, been disassembled into major components and stored in separate locals. Hmmm, Mushi seems pleased with this additional security, so does President Bush, but you don't. Why do you suppose that is? </rhetorical question>

But just like in your previous two links, the WP authors of that article state that Pakistan has "between 30 and 40 warheads", rather than the "about a 100 nuclear warheads" you hyped in your post #1. Have you always had this problem with "fudging" the truth?

Your WP source also goes on to state: "Musharraf...now controls the nuclear weapons program...by virtue of his position as army chief of staff...Pakistan's nuclear program has always been under the control of the military". Since this was your "expert" source, maybe you could use this as an answer to your own question about whether I had any proof that the Pakistani Generals control all their nuclear weapons. (Forgive my reticence to answer that question earlier, but I just felt like I was being asked for proof that the sun will rise tomorrow.)

8	“Wrong. You are changing the ground again with your own definition.”

I don't think I've ever met an FR poster so willing to digress, go off topic, change the subject, ramble on endlessly and invent strawmen, as I've seen you do. I'm still not sure whether it is just your unfortunate personality trait or whether it is done deliberately to obfuscate the issue when you've painted yourself into a corner, like you did with the still unanswered challenge to...

“This is serious stuff. These guys hold the keys to about a 100 nuclear warheads!” --Saberwielder at #1

In over 80 posts, you have offered NO PROOF, whatsoever, that "these guys" had any direct access to nuclear weapons or even nuclear weapon components, nor that any of them had any command authority nor the security codes necessary to launch and/or detonate a nuclear device. Thus, your claim is a lie.

Your willful failure to directly retract this defamation, means it will stand as a glaring example of the lies you promulgate here on FR, and your agenda to undermine the Bush doctrine in Pakistan. Your hatred of Mushi and Pakistan overrides your professed support for the GWOT.

You have branded yourself as dishonest.

--Boot Hill

That webpage also says that "Pakistan is believed to [have] somewhere between two and three dozen nuclear weapons". What happened to the "about a 100 nuclear warheads", that you promised us?

Does it ever occur to you that estimates of weapons produced by an active nuclear program are not static? LOL.

See this news

One official said the Pakistanis “are more likely to have those numbers 25 to 100 weapons than the Indians.”

The latest estimates, according to Courcy's is over 120 weapons for the Paks, including up to 30 Plutonium devices thanks to the Chinese help at the Khusab facility. But why bother with the facts, right?

How many of your stupid arguments do I have to bust before you stop digging? LOL

Pakistan's nuclear program has always been under the control of the military". Since this was your "expert" source, maybe you could use this as an answer to your own question about whether I had any proof that the Pakistani Generals control all their nuclear weapons. (Forgive my reticence to answer that question earlier, but I just felt like I was being asked for proof that the sun will rise tomorrow.)

Heh Heh. So a "military" is made up only of Generals? What about Lieutenants, Captains, Majors, Colonels and enlisted men? Who's fudging the truth and clutching at straws? This is hilarious.

I'm sure you saw my authoritative quotes from two Pakistani Generals, one of whom served in the Strategic Plans division that oversees the nukes. Do you have any answer to that mister? Youi can't. Because you have nothing.

Nothing except bluster and the 8

Hmmm, Mushi seems pleased with this additional security, so does President Bush, but you don't. Why do you suppose that is?

After all your bluster and blabbering, you are reduced to "Mushi (LOL) and Bush are happy, so am I." Pathetic.

In conclusion, you are a joke. From post# 30 to this one, you have moved the goalposts 4 times. You have also proven to be a hypocrite by not submitting yourself to the same standard as what you demand of others. You have ducked every question put to you, even though I answered every question you asked me.

Let the free thinking Freepers determine as to who's honest and who's dishonest. You have been given the Boot. LOL.

8	“You have ducked every question put to you”

And until you deal with the lie you posted in #1, I won't allow you to distract from that issue...

“This is serious stuff. These guys hold the keys to about a 100 nuclear warheads!” --Saberwielder at #1

In over 80 posts, and despite repeated requests, you have failed to offer any proof, whatsoever, that "these guys" had any direct access to nuclear weapons or even nuclear weapon components, nor that any of them had any command authority nor the security codes necessary to launch and/or detonate a nuclear device. Thus, your claim can only be viewed as a lie.

Your willful failure to retract your false and defamatory claim, means that it will stand as a memorial to your agenda to undermine the Bush doctrine in Pakistan. Your hatred of Mushi and Pakistan overrides any claimed support you have for the GWOT.

You have branded yourself as dishonest.

--Boot Hill

And until you deal with the lie you posted in #1, I won't allow you to distract from that issue

LoL, so you admit that you are flummozed by my questions and don't have the guts to answer them. Thanks for admitting that. Or is it another "forum policy" to allow inept posters to escape responsibility.

In over 80 posts, and despite repeated requests, you have failed to offer any proof, whatsoever, that "these guys" had any direct access to nuclear weapons or even nuclear weapon components, nor that any of them had any command authority nor the security codes necessary to launch and/or detonate a nuclear device. Thus, your claim can only be viewed as a lie.

That is a LIE

You are worse than Baghdad Bob. I have made numerous attempts to answer your changing questions.

In my posts , I have done the following:

1. Showed you expert quotes on the dangers of Islamist sympathies among the men guarding Pakistan's facilities. Post#32

2. Showed that PALs only guard against misuse of nuclear detonation assemblies and do not protect disassembled cores or nuclear fuel. Posts #32, 54 and 63

3. Showed in posts# 82 and #98 as to why terrorists do not need warhead codes to get access to a nuclear device.

4. Showed in Post# 98 with direct quotes from Pakistan Army officials, including a General in charge of their nuclear weapons division that their safety is weak and that individuals at the lower level do have access to the codes as well as weapons.

5. Showed in Post# 106 that the US has now revised Pakistan's nuclear arsenal number to 100 or more. You have ignored all my above posts and repeat a LIE that I have not offered any proof.

If my posts above aren't replies to your silly blue question, then what are they? Why have you changed the question so many times?

It is time for YOU to put up the proofs for all the bogus claims you have made, including your claim that only Generals have access to "Pakistan's nuclear codes"

8	“In my posts , I have done the following:”

All of which are off-point and do nothing to answer the charge against you...

“This is serious stuff. These guys hold the keys to about a 100 nuclear warheads!” --Saberwielder at #1

You continue to brand yourself as dishonest.

--Boot Hill

8	“You are no one to bring a 'charge'”

And you are apparently, no one to answer a charge...

“This is serious stuff. These guys hold the keys to about a 100 nuclear warheads!” --Saberwielder at #1

Your willful failure to either justify or retract your false and defamatory claim, means that it will stand as a memorial to your agenda to undermine the Bush doctrine in Pakistan. Your hatred of Mushi and Pakistan overrides any claimed support you have for the GWOT.

You continue to label yourself as dishonest.

--Boot Hill

8	“stop spamming me.”

Sorry, that's not within your power to demand. As long as you post lies and defamations against U.S. foreign policy, and refuse to retract them, you will be held to account, just like this...

“This is serious stuff. These guys hold the keys to about a 100 nuclear warheads!” --Saberwielder at #1

You have been given ample opportunity to either justify or retract your false and defamatory claim. That you haven't, means that it will stand as a memorial to your agenda to sow doubt and discord and to undermine the Bush doctrine in Pakistan. Your hatred of Mushi and Pakistan overrides any claimed support you have for the GWOT.

Once again, you continue to label yourself as dishonest.

--Boot Hill

8	“Talk to the hand.”

For the lack of substantive answers to the defamations you post against U.S. foreign policy, I might as well be talking to your hand. You have yet to answer these charges...

“This is serious stuff. These guys hold the keys to about a 100 nuclear warheads!” --Saberwielder at #1

In over 90 posts (and counting), and despite repeated requests, you've failed to offer any proof, whatsoever, that "these guys" had any direct access to nuclear weapons or even nuclear weapon components, nor that any of them had any command authority nor the security codes necessary to launch and/or detonate a nuclear device. Thus, your claim must be viewed as nothing less than a deliberate lie.

You have been given ample opportunity to either justify or retract your false and defamatory claim. That you haven't, means that it must stand as a memorial to your agenda to sow doubt and discord and to undermine the Bush doctrine in Pakistan. Your hatred of Mushi and Pakistan overrides any claimed support you have for the GWOT.

Without shame, you continue to label yourself as dishonest.

--Boot Hill

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