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To: Fruitbat

Fascinating twists you take on my statements and Biblical statements.

I don't know precisely in a list of areas which to take HOW literally and which to take HOW symbolically. I don't think anyone has it all figured out.

I haven't really changed my position or statements on that or anything else in this discussion. Sorry if my language has given any other impression.

OF course the new earth and the 1,000 reign before that are to be populated with THE RIGHTEOUS. But that could cover different parameters depending on a lot of things. And particularly where do the mortal pure in heart come from--as best as one can tell, evidently from surviving through the GREAT TRIBULATION. But I don't think a lot of man's perspective on a lot of that is as precisely known and rock solid in interpretation as a lot of people seem to think--even you.


393 posted on 12/26/2004 9:03:21 PM PST by Quix (HAVING A FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING IT'S POWER. I TIM 3:5)
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To: Quix
I don't know precisely in a list of areas which to take HOW literally and which to take HOW symbolically. I don't think anyone has it all figured out.

It's pretty simple really. If you have to go through a book/letter such as Revelation and "figure out" which words are literal and which are figurative or metaphorical, then that should be a flag as it was for me years back. You see every Tom, Dick, and Harry saying which words mean what and start twisting and contorting everything to conform to the "truth" that they've been taught.

Revelation is meant to be taken figuratively. That doesn't mean it's not literal, it's literal using the literary tools of metaphors and allegories. To start ripping it to shreds and stating, often within sentences, that 'this word is literal while this is not' is ridiculous by any standard. Yet, that's what happens. My finding is that fewer than 1% of those holding a position on this have done any significant research themselves and that's being polite. I've discussed this with pastors who hold a position in their church, again, the "expert pastor" in that church, that can only point me to books in the book store. Not good.

You mention a great tribulation. Jesus spoke of this. But why do you hold a view of the underlying assumption that this "great tribulation", read about the details in Matt. 24. Why does everyone assume that this tribulation is visible and identifiable to all? Jesus himself gives his people ways to identify certain things, but maintains that no one can predict the day of his return.

With the view you now hold, once some of these 'events' occur, all it takes is a third or fourth grade education in math coupled with a rudimentary knowledge of scripture top pinpoint the return to the day +/- a few hours. These things should be flags to you. The tribulation is going on now. Look around you. You come to FR. What do you see about the moral condition of this world? Wasn't that Jesus' focus, spiritual matters primarily with morality, goodness, and righteousness as the lynchpins! What is happening to morality and God today?

Read 2 Tim 3. See what it says about how "christians" will treat the topic of God. Don't you see these things happening? As well, there are a good many things not so well defined about 'time' and 'the days' just prior to the return of Christ. Movies depict this "Terminator" type of condition on the earth with all kinds of blatantly "evil" things happening. But is this what Jesus said the earth would be like in the days just prior to his return? Matt. 24: 38,39 paints the picture the way that it will be. Yet, many continue to turn it into something that it's not.

Also, what you read about there is this thing they call the rapture. Yes, there will be a "removal" of God's people from this earth, but that preceeds its destruction per some of what we've already discussed. The scriptures that many take from that there will be time on earth after that make no such statements. Read them if you don't believe me. 1 Cor 15 and 2 Thess. 4. Many take "will not preceed those that have fallen asleep" and 'interpreted' it to mean that there's some large time period in between a so-called "rapture" and yet another, a third coming, at some later date and time, which again, is then easily predictable. Forget the notion that there is no "third coming" mentioned anywhere.

Now, I already know your arguments to those things, so relaz there. LOL This is just for you to chew on. Do with it what you will. But if you can get past this stuff, you'll find that all of a sudden things seemingly completely unrelated in the Bible will all of a sudden make so much more sense that it'll be eye-opening to ya.

It's laid out VERY simply. It only gets complicated when it's redefined by people not understanding it. They confuse matters. God's people do not have to be confused on this topic. Take what you know, and start asking yourself all the real questions of things that don't make sense yet are explained away by other things that when added up just don't have the circle come around to reconnect with itself. Then look into those things.

Part of this includes reading through your Bible without "study helps." You'll find it amazing how much you can uncover. As well, I said it's simple, but it does take time and personal study. Understand things such as where and why each book letter was written before you read them.

399 posted on 01/04/2005 7:37:54 AM PST by Fruitbat
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