NEXT GENERATION F/A-22 RAPTOR: Stealth fighter crashes

Las VegasReview Journal ^ | 12/21/04 | Brean

[pabianice]

Prayers.

[Moral Hazard]

"In the first reported crash of the military's next generation fighter jet, an F/A-22 Raptor slammed into the ground and exploded during takeoff at Nellis Air Force Base Monday afternoon."

I think this statement is incorrect. I remember during testing an F22 having a strange instability on takeoff where it went up and down in sort of a sine wave before crashing. Nobody was hurt in that case. If I remember correctly it turned out to be a software problem.

[Moral Hazard]

"The only other reported accident involving the F-22 was a non-fatal crash landing that occurred during testing and development of the aircraft at Edwards Air Force Base in 1992."

Ooops, guess I should read the whole articles before I post.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Them computer bugs can be deadly!

[CWW]

I have a friend who is an F-15 instructor at Nellis. He know the pilot. It's not good news for the Raptor program because the crash is likely mechanical since it barely occurred after takeoff. In fact, my source was taxying on the runway when it happened.

[anymouse]

Not the only Raptor to crash hard. :)

[Truth29]

Why mechanical? Could it be a computer control problem?

[Oztrich Boy]

Ooops, guess I should read the whole articles before I post.

Why? The people who write them don't.

In the first reported crash of the military's next generation fighter jet, an F/A-22 Raptor slammed into the ground and exploded during takeoff at Nellis Air Force Base Monday afternoon.
...
The only other reported accident involving the F-22 was a non-fatal crash landing that occurred during testing and development of the aircraft at Edwards Air Force Base in 1992.

[Last Dakotan]

Government Accountability Office

Now there's a government office we need more of.

[Boundless]

> I remember during testing an F22 having a strange
> instability on takeoff where it went up and down
> in sort of a sine wave before crashing.

That was the YF-22 prototype, April 25, 1992.

PIO (Pilot-Induced Oscillation) due to an unfortunate
coincidence of the computer flight control laws and
the reactions of the pilot. Not at all uncommon in
early flights of fly-by-wire a/c.

PIO was my first thought when I saw today's news, but
chances are it's some other problem. This is why test
flights are test flights.

[Calvin Locke]

ABC Radio news said the F22, er, make that all F22's were grounded, pending...

[demlosers]

Military fighters aircraft all crash at some point. This will not be the last F-22 to bite it. A fighter aircraft attrition rate is expected. Today, fighters are less at being lawn darts than the early days. By looking at the crash rates of today versus the fighter A/Cs during the 50s, 60, and 70s, today's fighters are much more safer.

In the past, the AF would lose many planes. At the end of the year, you could read the AF Times which showed the yearly tally which could reach over 100 lost A/C per year.

[TalonDJ]

From what I know that YF-22 crash was because the pilot failed to disable the thrust-vectoring when taking off. The vectoring was not meant for takeoff use and that caused the PIO. If such s system is still used (the pilot has to be sure it is off) then the same thing could have happened. That is pure speculation though. They probably changed the system. That is an incredibly complex aircraft so a great many things could have gone wrong. My money would be on a software problem.

[Dont_Tread_On_Me_888]

, the number of aircraft the Pentagon plans to buy has shrunk from 750 to about 300, according to the Government Accountability Office.

. . . while we send Africa $15,000,000,000 to maintain their unsafe sexual practices.

[jettester]

But as the cost of the F/A-22 has swelled, estimates range from $130 million to $250 million each, the number of aircraft the Pentagon plans to buy has shrunk from 750 to about 300, according to the Government Accountability Office.

Stupid reporter. If you have half the aircraft to spread the cost of R&D and start-up over, it is no wonder the contract cost per unit has gone up almost double. I have never heard of one government contract that reduced its' buy amount down (after contract award) where the cost per unit delivered hadn't gone up.

[Red6]

I saw that video too. But was it a manned flight? And was it a total loss, or did it slide in on it's belly? I can't remember.

Red6

[Tallguy]

Halving the buy, doubles the unit price. Simple math.

[Moral Hazard]

"Stupid reporter"

Agreed. Reporters need to take at least basic economics before writing on subjects like this. Maybe then they could understand the difference between fixed and marginal costs.

[Blueflag]

What crash is ever good news for a program?

[Moral Hazard]

"I saw that video too. But was it a manned flight? And was it a total loss, or did it slide in on it's belly? I can't remember. "

Boundless seems to know more about it than I do, but what I remember was that it was manned, but that it basically ended up doing a belly landing with the pilot not being hurt. The plane didn't look destroyed afterwards, but I have no idea what the actual damages were.