Posted on 12/20/2004 5:45:44 PM PST by wagglebee
Have you studied the early church fathers?
Are you accusing me of this?
Traditional support? You'll find none, of course.
this sacred Office of Teacher in matters of faith and morals must be the proximate and universal criterion of truth for all theologians, since to it has been entrusted by Christ Our Lord the whole deposit of faith - Sacred Scripture and divine Tradition - to be preserved, guarded and interpreted, still the duty that is incumbent on the faithful to flee also those errors which more or less approach heresy, and accordingly "to keep also the constitutions and decrees by which such evil opinions are proscribed and forbidden by the Holy See," is sometimes as little known as if it did not exist ... But if the Supreme Pontiffs in their official documents purposely pass judgment on a matter up to that time under dispute, it is obvious that that matter, according to the mind and will of the Pontiffs, cannot be any longer considered a question open to discussion among theologians. (Pius XII, Humani Generis 18,20)
Where's the "unless he thinks the Pope is wrong" clause? In fact, Pius XII was dealing with precisely this case (see §18). The theologians he condemned were arguing that the Pontiffs had taught against traditional doctrine and should be practically ignored:
What is expounded in the Encyclical Letters of the Roman Pontiffs concerning the nature and constitution of the Church, is deliberately and habitually neglected by some with the idea of giving force to a certain vague notion which they profess to have found in the ancient Fathers, especially the Greeks.
It is simply not part of the duties of Catholics for them to dissent from the teaching of the Sovereign Pontiff, as if the average layman was qualified to judge the doctrinal value of the Magisterium:
For, together with the sources of positive theology God has given to His Church a living Teaching Authority to elucidate and explain what is contained in the deposit of faith only obscurely and implicitly. This deposit of faith our Divine Redeemer has given for authentic interpretation not to each of the faithful, not even to theologians, but only to the Teaching Authority of the Church. (HG 21)
To say otherwise is the thesis of modernists like Frs. Curran and McCormick, not traditional doctrine.
Some of these beatifications and canonizations are for people who deserved them. The others however...
I'm not even Catholic and I'm offended by that remark.
Offended by which? The comment, or that both things happened?
Is that a new tenet of the RC Church? A new type of Christianity?
Name-calling? The Pope did kiss a copy of the Koran and did go to Assisi for an interfaith service where animists were present. Both are unprecedented before Vatican II.
an·i·mism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-mzm)
n.
The belief in the existence of individual spirits that inhabit natural objects and phenomena.
The belief in the existence of spiritual beings that are separable or separate from bodies.
The hypothesis holding that an immaterial force animates the universe.
Yeah, and your point is?
Absolutely not. The declaration of someone as a saint is not a matter of doctrine.
Sounds like angels to me. I could be wrong.
The hypothesis holding that an immaterial force animates the universe.
I suppose you will make the case that God is material as we understand it. Maybe you can, I don't pretend to be a Catholic theologian.
In anycase, if someone doesn't agree with the Pope, they should pray for him, not attack him, but hey, like I say, maybe some Catholics think differently, so I can't speak for them.
The truth hurts, baby. You can see the pix yourself, with zero effort on Google. JPII kissed the koran and proudly had himself photographed in the act. He has worshipped with animists, voodoo priests, and their ilk many times, most famously at his love-ins while desecrating Assisi. Be offended all you want, but facts are stubborn things.
So, quit the church if you hate the Pope.
Who said the Pope was above criticism? Catholics should respect his authority, but if stupid things like this are proposed, and he does things like kiss the Koran, he is perfectly subject to criticism.
As far as I know, there have been two proclamations by the Pope, the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption, which have been considered doctrine due to the unique infallibility of the Pope. Although I would also say, it appears to me that the Pope is infallible in his assertion that abortion is always a moral evil and must be opposed by Christians. He seems to be purposely presenting the conditions of infallibility when he addressed the bubject in an encyclical to the world.
Read the biography of St. Catherine of Sienna for a perfect example of someone who loved the Church while criticizing the Pope for living in France instead of the Eternal City.
Go away, little boy. We hear your kind of bleating a thousand times a day, and you contribute nothing to the issue.
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