BUSH'S IMMIGRATION PET PHRASES

michellemalkin.com ^ | 12/20/2004 | Michelle Malkin

[nanak]

After the White House news conference this morning, Bill Kristol on Fox News praised President Bush's remarks about "immigration reform" as "eloquent." Beg to differ. The president's open-borders statements were empty, garish platitudes strung together sloppily like cheap Christmas lights:

Illegal aliens "do the job Americans won't do." President Bush used that dog-tired phrase about a half-dozen times during today's press conference as he defended his impending illegal alien amnesty plan. Mark Krikorian effectively puts this mindless rhetoric to rest here.

"Family values don't stop at the Rio Grande." Uh huh. Well, terrorists and gang members and drunken murderers and cop-killers don't stop there either. And based on past and recent experience, granting amnesty to 13 million law-breakers will only result in more illegal immigration, not less.

We need immigration reform that "recognizes reality." Rank-and-file immigration enforcement officials give a real reality check on the amnesty debacle here, here, and here.

As immigration enforcement veteran/former U.S. prosecutor Peter Nunez put it:

[W]e need to stop the talk of a coming amnesty, or of a guest worker program, both of which, by themselves, serve to encourage additional illegal immigration. What kind of message are we sending when we dangle that possibility before people desperate enough to put their lives at risk? Doesn’t this kind of talk also indicate that we really don’t care much about law breaking, that we don’t really care that much about the rule of law, that these immigration laws exist only as a token objection to the violation of our sovereignty? Now, that is eloquent.

[todd1]

I agree. These laws should be enforced as much as they can but as long as there is a demand for cheap labor, someone will do the hiring.

[dagnabbit]

The part I'm laughing at is any promise by Bush to deport people who break immigration law. Simply not credible.

[Fatalis]

There is simply no way to send 8 million people back to Mexico. It is logistically impossible.

True, and most estimates are higher than 8 million, which only makes talk of mass deporations even more silly.

However, the President's legalization plan wouldn't address a significant portion of the illegal aliens anyway, since many don't have verifiable employment. What it would do is put several million qualifying illegal aliens in front of guest worker applicants who haven't broken our laws.

Setting aside for the moment the problem of rewarding lawbreakers, what's to be done with the millions of illegal aliens who wouldn't qualify under the Bush plan?

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: We cannot arrive at 2025 with two workers per retiree.

It makes a lot of sense to have these millions of young workers helping by paying taxes.

But paying taxes to whom? The guest workers' source countries or the host country.

I've run across a lot of discussion about "economic diaspora," a developing country's "nation beyond borders."

Right now the source countries depend upon remittances, both individual families and "group" remittances to government entities. They are looking at something more reliable.

Why wouldn't the source country say, "Hey! You developed countries get the benefit of our citizens' cheap labor -- we want something too! We want to tax their income you get benefits enough."

That's the kind of stuff I've run across (googling can be dangerous).

Totalization is already a fact. I believe that there is also serious discussion about giving ILLEGAL aliens SSA credits for prior years -- it can be done. The SSA has the info in a suspense file with the phony and stolen SSNs and earnings statement, along with the employer ID.

So why wouldn't taxing income go the same way as totalization sends SS money? Toward the guest worker and his source country?

[Nick Danger]

you want millions upon millions more people?

About 60 million more, yes. I would like to avoid having to euthanize the aged because there are not enough working adults to both support them and raise the subsequent generation.

We're already hearing the "euthanasia" noises from the pontificators who grade the road for these sorts of moral horrors; if we don't want to see that road paved, we'd better start now.

Without the immigrants, and at current fertility rates, we will arrive at 2025 with 2 workers per retiree, compared to 4-to-1 now and 16-to-1 in the 1950's. You can only place so much load on the generation that is raising the nation's children. Beyond a certain point, it actually starts to make sense to ask the old to, umm, "go up into the mountain and not come back."

When abortion first started, Rush Limbaugh stated that it would ultimately bring us a "culture of death" that had no respect for life. He was ridiculed for it. I'm telling you now that euthanizing the old will double the trouble.

60 million more people will only get us to a 3-to-1 ratio of workers to retirees. It doesn't even keep us where we are now. Yeah, I think we need the 60 million new people.

If you and Ron are successful with your ambassadorships, and you can talk the wimmins into having 60 million babies they otherwise would not have, then I'll join you in wanting to stanch the border flows. But without the babies, we need those immigrants to avoid moral horror. And that's a fact.

[Fatalis]

Although I agree with much of what Michelle Malkin says, I think she's exposed on immigration issues. I defy her to state that she's never filed an immigration petition for her relatives in the Philippines.

Assuming she has, how would that expose her?

[sinkspur]

Cut illegal aliens off from everything that they came here for (jobs, taxpayer funded freebies) and they'll begin to "deport" themselves.

Go ahead. Knock yourself out trying to get any politician other than Tancredo to make this an issue.

There's some momentum building in California and Arizona. The only politician who even brings up illegal immigration is John Cornyn, and he's firmly behind Bush's plan.

[blanknoone]

As someone else mentioned, the logistics of deporting 12+ million immigrants are staggering.

Note that I did not advocate that. I think the key is simple. Step up enforcement efforts, along with publicizing that anyone caught loses eligibilty for the new program. Combine punishment for those who knowlingly employ illegals and application for the program in their home country and many would choose to leave. They break our immigration laws because it is profitable and no risk. Change that equation. We don't have to deport 12 million. We have to set the conditions where it makes sense for them to leave. Ineligibility for the program combined with efforts like that one 'rogue' unit that did interior enforcement and rounded up a couple of hundred illegals in a weekend is all it would probably take.

The $1000 monthly fee is to discourage use of the program...it gives citizens a leg up against immigrants. When it really makes sense to hire foreigners to do work, employers have access to the program. If immigrants are willing to do work for $12k a year less than any Americans, than it makes sense to bring in a foreign worker. For instance...take an agricultural processing plant job, which is in many cases almost completely manned by illegals right now. They could hire an American for $30k a year, or they could hire a guest worker for $20k a year....but they would have to pay an additional $12k to the program for not hiring an American. They'd hire the American for $30k instead of the immigrant for $20k plus the GWP fee of $12k (total cost $32k). And I wouldn't have it paid by the worker, I'd have it paid by the employer for using the program. It is essentially a tariff on foreign labor. All this 'doing jobs Americans won't do' is really 'doing jobs for less than Americans are willing to do them for'

The change in citizenship for children would indeed require a Constitutional Amendment. We can do it. As the leftists are fond of saying, the Constitution is a living breathing document...and the living and breathing is the Amendment process, not the courts.

I want the GWP strictly limited in duration. 5 years is plenty...not continuously reapplications. After 5 years, they can hire a different Guest Worker. I don't want people who come here and stay and become second class citizens. They are guest workers...they should come, work and promptly leave. I don't want anything like what happened in Germany with the Turks.

[skeeter]

No. However I'm not sure how that's related to the legal importation of legal goods. What's you're point?

The point is, in this 'global market' it is possible to expect protection of laws which might also have the effect of keeping prices higher than they would be if we simply allowed for competitive advantage.

Isn't US labor entitled to some protection from those breaking the law?

[Fatalis]

The real world I live in would go berzerk and Bush would be impeached if there were mass deportations of Mexican illegals. Picture it: families with little kids being herded onto busses under the watching National Guard. Cameras rolling, network TV chiming in. Kids crying.

The President's plan does nothing to bring illegal alien mothers and children "out of the shadows." One has to have a verifiable job to qualify. What should be done with them?

[blanknoone]

I think she's exposed on immigration issues. I defy her to state that she's never filed an immigration petition for her relatives in the Philippines.

I fail to see how trying to get her relatives into the US LEGALLY would 'expose' her in any way. If she smuggled them in and employed them illegally, then she would be exposed.

[bayourod]

"I may often fail but I do try to present an idea or two "

I'd say you failed this time.

[Fatalis]

I never said anything about racism... I feel that if we can get everyone documented and then close the borders, many of our problems you just mentiond will be resolved.

The President's plan rewards some illegal aliens at the expense of potential guest workers who have never broken our laws. Only illegal aliens with verifiable jobs would qualify and be documented. Any illegal alien not qualifying, and there would be millions of them, would remain undocumented.

[Tarl]

Well, I argued all the Illegal Immigration opposition ideas I could think of with an illegal alien claiming individual on a Dummy site and I still side with the many who rightfully oppose them.

I do not know the mindset or facts that the President has used in his decision making on this matter but inherently I know I trust him. It seems too obvious to me for him to know that this is an issue that he is falling on the opposite side of his constituents...

so he either is personally affected by this decision, ie as Governor of Texas he has come to love the Hispanic character and sees their people as helping our culture more than hurting it...or he realizes the financial burden that it would take to deport these aliens would strain our reburgeoning economy. Legally we would have to deport all illegal aliens not just the easier to track Hispanics or suffer the full assault of the ACLU thug lawyers.

I think its a little of both of these reasons and so, as opposed as I am (I still think there is medical risk from epidemics of diseases we have conquered here but are re-introduced through illegal aliens from various countries who by nature of their illegal entry bypass the medical screening a legal immigrant must overcome) I still will give our President the benefit of the doubt and my full support...

I find some of the griping in these posts a bit juvenile in saying we voted for Mr. Bush because he was our only option at the time. No wonder heros dont exist in our culture anymore when we hold them to such scrutiny.

[Fatalis]

How do you determine that they are NOT Illegal?

Employers now have a way (and its about to become mandatory):

S. 1685, the Basic Pilot Extension Act of 2003, was signed by President Bush on December 3, 2003.

By December of 2004, every business in America will have a nearly sure-fire way to verify if a new employee is an illegal alien or has the right to work in America.

Most importantly, no business in America will have an excuse for hiring illegals.

Right now , the job of trying to figure out if the ID shown by a new employee is a counterfeit or not is just daunting. That is sometimes a legitimate excuse and sometimes a smokescreen for why so many businesses have illegal aliens working for them. But with the new system, businesses merely use existing documents (social security cards and alien identification cards) and existing databases (SSA and BCIS databases) to verify employment eligibility. An employer using the system simply calls an 800 number, provides the name and the Social Security number or the alien ID number, as presented by the new hire, and then he receives either a confirmation indicating that the worker is authorized to work in the US or a tentative non-confirmation if the number and name provided do not match SSA or BCIS data. In the case of a tentative non-confirmation, the new hire has the right to contact SSA or BCIS and try to fix the problem BEFORE the employer may fire the new hire.

Dreier Delivers Floor Statement Regarding Illegal Immigration and the Bonner Plan

"In fact, Mr. Speaker, T.J. Bonner, a 26-year veteran of the Border Patrol, and President of the National Border Patrol Council, estimates that we can eliminate as much as 98 percent of illegal border crossings if we can give employers access to verifiable identity information on prospective employees and if we crack down on employers who hire illegal workers. 98 percent is a remarkable number, and it would allow the Border Patrol to focus on targeting criminal aliens and terrorists.

"Because of this, Mr. Speaker, I introduced H.R. 5111, the Bonner Plan, to improve the security of our Social Security cards and provide a method by which employers could immediately verify the authenticity of that Social Security card. My bill would also increase fines for hiring an illegal worker by 400 percent, and provide for prison sentences of up to 5 years per count.

No need to legalize illegal aliens to find out where they are. Employers can now do it with an 800 number.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

Here in the "belly of the beast" (Sacramento) we have a morning talk show guy who is approaching this whole issue with studied, well researched, non-emotional rhetoric. He says.

Then he launches into a diatribe about knuckle-dragging, pot-and-pan-banging rants of those who oppose how he feeeeeeeeeeels about the issue -- basically pro "guest worker" and just about anything Arnold wants. Go figure.

He doesn't raise his voice during his diatribe. Maybe that's the difference.

I am sure he posts here and he has a few followers it appears.

[DoughtyOne]

The hard sell isn't getting women to stay home, because some families would elect to keep the father home if the wife had the better job and they came to this arrangement.

The hard sell would be convincing women to have five to seven children again.

It may require having televisions that only worked 12 hours per day. Now that would probably be the toughest sell of all.

Hey, I realize this would be problematic. I also realize that our kids would be a lot better off, and our society in general probably would be too.

Post child rearing years, both parents could opt to enter the work force.

I think most people would look at this and think what a problematic suggestion it was. I look at what we're doing rather than this, and consider that very problematic.

Oh well...

[texastoo]

I don't think you live in the real world. The Law of Unintended consequences? Let me give you another scenario and please answer how you would solve this problem.

Let say Jose comes in as a guest worker bringing his wife and 3 daughters aged 15,16,and 17. Old Jose and wife decide to have 2 children then the daughters produce 6 children between them. Since Jose is only making minimum wage, (a job that most Americans won't do), he and his family will be used to additional food stamps, WIC for all the children up to the age of 5 and earned income tax.

Lo and behold, Jose decides he does not want to go back to Mexico. Now, what???????????

[Joe Hadenuf]

"We need more people"

Our classrooms are jammed and overcrowded, our freeways and highways jammed, lines everywhere, make a phone call and your put on hold for 15 minutes, our jails are overcrowded, colleges are at capacity, landfills full, limited resources, pollution problems, social services choked off, limited hospital bed space, hospitals closing due to the poor that don't pay, most all the choice areas in this country are already built out, I could go on and on..

And you want millions upon millions more people?

About 60 million more, yes.

Hey Nick, lets have your address, and we'll send all 60 million of these to your town. You'll love it Nick.

Good Lord!

[Just another Joe]

While I agree with much of what you say, such as it's not financially viable to deport ALL illegal immigrants, I would probably go along with the, 'provide proof of employment to stay', if, after the guest worker program is implemented, you're found to be here illegally, you get treated as a terrorist.