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Boise police officer kills teen wielding rifle with bayonet
Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 12/20/04 | AP

Posted on 12/20/2004 7:48:37 AM PST by Ellesu

BOISE, Idaho - Police shot a teenager Saturday after the boy allegedly punctured the uniform of an officer with a bayonet mounted on a World War II-era rifle. Officer Andrew S. Johnson killed Mathew Jones, 16, near the teen's home in a suburban Boise neighborhood north of the city's downtown. According to police, Jones' father called officers at 5 p.m. Saturday to report his 16-year-old son was out of control and was using the 15-inch bayonet to put holes in the walls of his house. Johnson arrived first and was talking to the father in the family's driveway about 5 p.m. when the teen jumped out of the bushes, repeatedly charging the officer with a bayonet and rifle, Boise police said. Johnson says he ordered Jones to drop his weapon. He told investigators that he felt ''contact,'' which police said was confirmed by at least one puncture hole in his uniform that went into Johnson's body armor. Johnson fired four shots, hitting Jones four times. ''The situation was urgent,'' said Boise Police Chief Jim Tibbs. ''The officer had to get involved. It's a risk of being a police officer, you can't always wait for backup.'' Police who searched the residence after the shooting said they found a water pipe and empty alcohol bottles, as well as a sword, a second bayonet and another rifle. ''There was evidence of drug use, including drug paraphernalia,'' said police spokeswoman Lynn Hightower, adding that while the father told dispatchers he believed his son's weapons were unloaded, police are still investigating that. Hightower also said the boy didn't appear to have a juvenile criminal record. Jones, a sophomore at Boise High School, was pronounced dead shortly after he arrived at Saint Alphonsus Regional Medical Center. An autopsy will be performed today, police said. The boy's father described his son as distraught and irrational and said he seemed to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol, police said. Police blocked off roads near the shooting for most of Saturday night. A task force made up of five law enforcement agencies is investigating the incident. Johnson has begun a paid, three-day administrative leave - the department's standard policy. He has the option of taking a longer leave of absence if he needs more time away from work, Tibbs said. ''Officers are trained to stop an imminent threat,'' Tibbs said. ''In this case, it looks like the officer responded as he was trained.'' Johnson has been with the department for four and a half years. This was the first time he has been involved in a shooting, police said.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Idaho
KEYWORDS: bang; bayonet; leo; police
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To: Centurion2000
You do not branish weapons to anyone you don't plan on fighting with.
21 posted on 12/20/2004 8:11:02 AM PST by television is just wrong (Our sympathies are misguided with illegal aliens.)
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To: mvpel
Naaaa,,,in the long run the looozer would only breed more of his kind to the detriment of humanity........
22 posted on 12/20/2004 8:15:58 AM PST by aspiring.hillbilly
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To: blau993

My WWII era rifle is a short magazine lee enfield. I can get off 30 aimed shots a minute.

It also makes a slightly bigger hole going in.

And by the way, I have the bayonet too.


23 posted on 12/20/2004 8:28:18 AM PST by donmeaker (Why did the Romans cross the road? To keep the slaves from revolting again.)
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To: aspiring.hillbilly

Survival of the fittest? Sounds good to me. Gotta stop protecting stupid people.


24 posted on 12/20/2004 8:28:36 AM PST by television is just wrong (Our sympathies are misguided with illegal aliens.)
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To: Ellesu

There is not quite enough information about this in the article. And it may be simply unknown. The officer was well within his rights to shoot someone trying to poke him with a bayonet. I would question whether putting 4 shots in the kid was excessive. It may have been, it may not have been. If the kid kept coming, the officer certainly should have kept firing, but if the officer was at all careful in where he shot kid, the first three should have been sufficiently debilitating to eliminate the threat.

That said, I don't think there is any criminal liability it the officer's actions. He faced a deadly threat with deadly force. But it is possible that better training could have led to a better outcome.


25 posted on 12/20/2004 8:39:28 AM PST by blanknoone (The two big battles left in the War on Terror are against our State dept and our media.)
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To: donmeaker

How do you get 30 rounds out of a Lee Enfield Magazine?


26 posted on 12/20/2004 8:40:13 AM PST by cpdiii (If you do not believe in entropy and enthalpy, look at government by liberals)
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To: blanknoone
I would question whether putting 4 shots in the kid was excessive. It may have been, it may not have been. If the kid kept coming, the officer certainly should have kept firing, but if the officer was at all careful in where he shot kid, the first three should have been sufficiently debilitating to eliminate the threat.

If it is still standing it is a threat.

27 posted on 12/20/2004 8:41:43 AM PST by cpdiii (If you do not believe in entropy and enthalpy, look at government by liberals)
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To: blanknoone
teen jumped out of the bushes, repeatedly charging the officer with a bayonet and rifle ....
The officer was well within his rights to shoot someone trying to poke him with a bayonet.

The officer also couldn't have known the kid wouldn't shoot him with the rifle, too, not just poke him with the bayonet.

28 posted on 12/20/2004 8:44:23 AM PST by mountaineer
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To: donmeaker
"is a short magazine lee enfield"

Bump for Monday morning gun thread.

Have you found anything other than Norma that will shoot through it, or do you roll your own?

29 posted on 12/20/2004 8:46:44 AM PST by Deguello
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To: Ellesu

I really feel sorry for the Officer; he had no choice but to do his duty and defend himself, and I'm sure he'll carry the guilt around for the rest of his life.

But the bottom line is, don't threaten or attack a Police Officer. Period.


30 posted on 12/20/2004 8:47:43 AM PST by Bean Counter
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To: cpdiii
If it is still standing it is a threat.

Yeah, but if he is still standing after three shots...the officer might need some training. Either in where to shoot, or how to hit what he is aiming at.

31 posted on 12/20/2004 8:49:13 AM PST by blanknoone (The two big battles left in the War on Terror are against our State dept and our media.)
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To: blau993
The description of it as a "WW II era" weapons leads me to think it may be an M1 Garand.

Based on what? It could have been an Enfield, Mauser, Springfield, Mosin-Nagant, etc. Considering the bayonet was 15 inches long, I would tend to believe it was bolt action rifle.

32 posted on 12/20/2004 8:49:54 AM PST by Trinity5
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To: Hatteras

That was how I read it initially, too!


33 posted on 12/20/2004 8:50:00 AM PST by B Knotts
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To: Sidebar Moderator; Ellesu
And maybe a carriage return or two.... :)
34 posted on 12/20/2004 8:52:20 AM PST by Ready4Freddy (Carpe Sharpei !)
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To: Ellesu

If the officer was really in fear for his life, how does he let a 16 yo get close enough to poke him with a bayonet?

If it happened as stated, why does the officer not take the boy down as I'm sure "he has been trained" to do without killing him?

Has any police officer anywhere not "responded as he was trained"? You never, ever, hear a police Chief say "officer So-And-So handled this imporperly and definately shouldn't have shot the suspect in the back."

I'm not defending the kids actions, but don't the cops ever take a risk to try and help the confused? It was a kid.

One more instance where the parents are making a mistake to call the cops. "Hello, police? Yeah, my kid is acting up again. Could you come over and shoot him or something?"


35 posted on 12/20/2004 8:55:47 AM PST by subterfuge ("Dems think 'Values' are what you get at WalMart"--subterfuge)
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To: Bigh4u2
"...adding that while the father told dispatchers he believed his son's weapons were unloaded, police are still investigating that."

I'm really starting to wonder about this police department. How long an investigation will it be to determine whether or not there were any bullets in the rifle? Perhaps I can be of assistance: LOOK IN THE CHAMBER.
36 posted on 12/20/2004 8:55:53 AM PST by fr_freak
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To: blanknoone
There is not quite enough information about this in the article. And it may be simply unknown. The officer was well within his rights to shoot someone trying to poke him with a bayonet. I would question whether putting 4 shots in the kid was excessive. It may have been, it may not have been. If the kid kept coming, the officer certainly should have kept firing, but if the officer was at all careful in where he shot kid, the first three should have been sufficiently debilitating to eliminate the threat.

I just read a good article in Combat Handgun magazaine by Massad Ayoob. He states that when shooting a person in the torso, the strike of the rounds are not immediately evident. Unless, the person is immediately incapacited such as with a head shot a defensive shooter may not even know if he hit the perpetrator. This is one reason mulitple shots are fired. The idea is to keep pumping out rounds until the perpetrator is no longer a threat.

37 posted on 12/20/2004 9:09:18 AM PST by Ajnin
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To: Ellesu

What a terrible shame and waste of a young life. May God watch over his soul and give those who knew and loved him some peace in their minds and in their hearts.


38 posted on 12/20/2004 9:10:47 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: 2banana
This is actually the first crime in 10 years that could have been affected by the now expired "clinton assault weapons ban" - it banned some rifles if they did not remove the bayonet lug...

Nope, close but no cigar. They said it was a WW-II era rifle. Thus a Garand or possibly a Springfield, if a US weapon. All the likely foreign weapons, and the Springfield, are bolt actions. Even the Garand, which is a semi-auto, doesn't qualify because it doesn't have a removable magazine. The magazine it does have holds less than ten rounds as well.

39 posted on 12/20/2004 9:13:29 AM PST by El Gato (Activist Judges can twist the Constitution into anything they want ... or so they think.)
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To: subterfuge
If the officer was really in fear for his life, how does he let a 16 yo get close enough to poke him with a bayonet?

They can come at you real fast, especially if your weapon is in your holster. The article says he jumped out of the bushes and repeatedly charged the officer. I am wondering how many times does he have to charge, before action is taken? No matter how you look at it, the whole situation is tragic. I think domestic disturbances, are the situations officers dread responding to most.

40 posted on 12/20/2004 9:35:07 AM PST by Mark17
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