DoD News Transcript (Positive Info on Armored Humvees Ignored by MSM)

Department of Defense ^ | 15December 2004 | Department of Defense

[Ranger]

Rumsfeld's resignation is Bush's decision alone. Armor has been mishandled and hundreds have died because of it, but it means nothing unless Bush says it does. While there are plenty of people that would like Rumsfeld out, a criticism of armor or lack thereof and Rumsfeld's handling of it is hardly aiding the enemy.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

About Those Unarmored Humvees

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[Eagle Eye]

Interesting. I've seen plenty of that myself on everything from HUMVEEs to 7 tons.

If you read these threads you'll see a great number of people more interested in protecting Rumsfeld than protecting the troops.

Where are you? I'm in the Al Anbar province. You can answer that freepmail if you want.

[Eagle Eye]

Simple steel plates as are so common in theater don't rate a Level III. Saying so gives a very wrong impression of the stuff welded, strapped, bolted, or wedged onto the vehicles.

Level III actually means something; it has a definition and has been tested. Scrap metal that may or may not work doesn't get a rating.

[Richard Kimball]

The MSM is hurting badly right now. They threw everything into electing this guy:

They gave up all their dignity, and shilled shamelessly for him, hoping to defeat this man:

They long for the days when they could start a drumbeat and destroy any political career. Their first major defeat was when they couldn't nail this man:

Now they want Rumsfeld. They're looking for anything to nail him. They want him badly. They couldn't nail Bush. They couldn't nail Cheney. They couldn't nail Rice. Now they aren't going to nail Rummy. But they'll make jackasses of themselves trying.

As Vince Foster wrote, "they destroy people for sport." I've always believed he wrote that about the Clintons, but it's true of the MSM, also.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Level III actually means something; it has a definition and has been tested. Scrap metal that may or may not work doesn't get a rating.

Guess we call that,.... Level IV stuff !!!

With the MSM as biased as they are....the Left Wing Eliteees trying every thing that they can think of, to damage Bush, including this ...latest crapola! What in the hell are the real facts,...is the Armor situation improving...or ...as ranger says....the Army playing a protection game...there is no way to tell at this end of the world.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Man oh Man.... has the Powerline blog broken another Hoax story?....

See the Link at post #22 for what I am talking about....

When I have to choose whether it's the Army telling me the truth...or the Main Stream Media and all of those aspiring for a career in the MSM.....I will choose the ARMY!!!

[Eagle Eye]

Look at post# 9.

Interesting how the freepers in the US seem intent on contradicting the freepers in country.

And, BTW, this isn't about Rumsfeld or Bush. It doesn't matter who is in office, I'd just like to see everyone get the best there is to have. At this point, I'm not convinced that is happening. But what do I know?

[Ranger]

Ernest, to answer your question about the actual status is somewhat complicated. The vast majority (8000 of 15000) or so humvee kits are the level 3 or below and often made locally. They simply aren't good for Iraq today as mines and mortars to name just two tear them up. The army is making a big mistake telling the public that there isn't a problem here on these items. Guys like Eagle Eye are out there depending on us and we're patting ourselves and Rumsfeld on the back for a job completed. This will get hundreds killed this year not to mention eventually leading the American people to believe we can't solve the problem when a year from now casualty rates are equal or higher as the insurgents improve their techniques. As to other armor manufactured here. I can tell you categorically, because I have direct contact with the vendors, that most, in fact all that I have contacted, have extensive excess capacity and put simply, the purchase orders were not let on a timely basis. The congress has been literally trying to hand Rumsfeld and the Army money as national guard units across the country hammered their congressmen. As for more armored humvees, it is true supplies in March, April and May will be at 550 from 450 but from my numbers and purchase orders let, I think production will drop to 1/3 that level or less which of course the army isn't mentioning. Also the armories went to single extended shift from 24x7 back in June and most private producers of kits never got orders or the highest I've found is 1/2 capacity. We are simply not letting the orders into the private sector. This is killing our guys. Rumsfeld and Myers are aware of the situation, but the pr spin machine has covered all behinds except those in iraq. At least the guys in Iraq have taken some initiative. It bears noting that last year the army was insisting that soldiers take their hillbilly armor off in the states because it hadn't been tested, not they are counting that same armor as class 3 in front of the media. How about we all agree on this thread to concentrate on maximum production until our troops are protected. Eagle eye and friends are depending on us.

[OXENinFLA]

Not sure if you caught this thread Senate Rpt.108-260 DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION ACT FOR FISCAL YEAR 2005 [Armored Humvees]

Ernest pointed out a link from Armor Holdings Inc. that pointed out they met the 450 mark 2 months AHEAD of schedule. So I'm guessing that they'll hit the 550 mark sooner too.

but the funded production caps out in March.

True, but keep an eye of for Congress to allocate more money once they get back in session.

[MeekOneGOP]

Hey, ya'll! Thanks for that Humvee story link and the ping!

I just pung that article. :^D

[Eagle Eye]

Thanks.

To me it isn't a Rumsfeld matter at all, other than I didn't really care for his response to the soldier.

My question really is this:

Is America really doing all she can to properly equip and support our troops?

I don't think so.

If that means I'm critical of this administration, so be it.

This really isn't about me and my safety, I have choices and do what I need to do fully informed and willingly. It isn't about me, it is about those we are here to support and those on the roads day in and day out.

Armoring all HUMVEEs isn't the answer. Running strictly 7 ton trucks or Strykers isn't the answer.

Bottom line is that the troops expect and deserve the best support and do not deserve to have a bunch of couch commandos telling them to tough it out.

Again, thanks for your perspective.

[Ranger]

I think production will be 550 in March, April and May and then its dramatically falls off unless new purchase orders are issued. Hopefully some of the $1.5 billion yet unspent will apply here but I can't get any confirmation of that. I'd like to see them make the 4000 units we took from Korea and elsewhere and rushed to Iraq while the plants are up and running; then ship them to Iraq until the commanders there say enough.

[Ranger]

Virtually none of the plants were pushed to capacity. The 550 push on armored humvees and a surge by some of the armories were the closest we ever came to a push. Most private contractors are and were way below capacity. They didn't get the orders to make gear. Peacetime procurement simply isn't fast enough or pushing hard enough in a time of war.