Posted on 12/17/2004 4:31:34 AM PST by SLB
NEW PORT RICHEY, Fla. - Pasco County officials have banned Christmas trees from public buildings in a move that one constitutional law group said Thursday was "the most extreme example of censorship imaginable."
The last of the Christmas trees were removed Wednesday after the county attorney said they were religious symbols, said Dan Johnson, assistant county administrator for Public Services.
The county either had to allow all religious symbols or none, he said.
"What you allow for one you must provide for all," Johnson said.
Pasco County, with nearly 400,000 residents, is a fast-growing area that has a mix of rural and urban areas and whose population has grown due to the urban sprawl that has crawled north from Tampa.
The American Center for Law & Justice said the decision was based on a flawed understanding of the law. Senior counsel Francis Manion said Christmas trees are legally considered a secular symbol for the observance of a national holiday: Christmas.
"They don't seem to understand the law, quite frankly, especially in concern with Christmas trees," Manion said.
The center's chief counsel, Jay Sekulow, said in a press release that "this is the most extreme example of censorship imaginable."
The center asked the county Tuesday to reverse the decision.
Johnson said the decision would stand through the holidays, but it would be reviewed next year and he welcomed advice.
"If they have something, I wouldn't mind getting it," Johnson said, explaining that he would pass any information along to the county attorney.
Johnson said he heard from dozens of people who were unhappy with the decision.
"Christmas is a federal holiday, Christmas is a widespread tradition and I think the attempt to remove any decorations that refer to Christmas or the nativity are simply ridiculous," said Gary Hatrick, 47, associate editor at the Zephyrhills News in Pasco County.
Previously, the county allowed the display of Christmas trees, but not religious symbols, Johnson said. Recently, a man wanted to display a menorah at a public building. He said that when the county attorney investigated whether the menorah could be displayed, the attorney decided that Christmas trees were also religious symbols.
Pasco County is just north of the Tampa area on Florida's gulf coast.
They should get their stories straight in Florida.
In another town, they decided that the menorah was NOT a religious symbol, so that was allowed. Then a woman wanted to buy a nativity scene and put it next to the menorah on public display, but that was outlawed.
She was aided in her suit by the Thomas More Law Center, and they just won the case.
She was on O'Reilly the other night, has been treated pretty badly in the town, was even spit upon.
Anyone across the country having trouble with discrimination against Christians should contact this group. This is their mission.
Excellent! This just keeps getting better and better. Perhaps you are not old enough to remember when retail stores would all be closed on Sundays (old Blue Laws). Then someone started the ball rolling by staying open on Sundays. I was at an age where I just thought it was cool to be able to shop on Sundays. I remember my Grandmother, a deeply devout Lutheran would not step foot in a store on the Sabbath. It was a personal choice for her, but she did feel that it was fair as not all Americans are Christians. Now I think it is time to get really, really "fair" and declare that religious holidays should not be federal holidays. Also retail stores should not be allowed to sell CHRISTMAS ITEMS as we wouldn't want to offend ANYONE! If this were to happen the ACLU would be run out of town on a rail by retailers who would lose an enormous amount of money each year.
...and let us not forget keeping the government schools open as well during the 'holiday' season...as these fine instituions are producing some of the most entertaining examples of this idiocy...I'd pay a lot to see the look on a teacher relative's face when told she has to work on the former holidays...
They better get busy and cut down all the pines, spruce etc from all the national parks then, they may offend someone.
The Russians used to put Red Stars on top of them and call them "Yolkas" and welcomed Father Frost instead of Santa Claus. This was a thumb in the eye to Stalin who had banned the trees.
Wow, I like this! Can you just imagine how the parents would react to telling them that their kids have to remain in school for the "WINTER HOLIDAY." And while we are at it not too many people need two months off in the summer. Few, if any, are needed at home to harvest the crops. So let's keep those schools opened 12 months a year. I really like this!! (:O)
I said this yesterday on another thread yesterday. The Friday after Thanksgiving is called Black Friday. The meaning of the this Black Friday is that a lot of retail stores go into profit during the Christmas season. If the Christmas shopping extravaganza did not exist mom and pop operations everywhere would be in big trouble.
Yes, I remember blue laws, in Kentucky the first things that opened were grocery stores, pharmacies and gas stations. It felt rather naughty to go to church and then slip into Kroger's for newness of it.
You're right about grocery stores and gas stations. There were only two gas stations in our town. The owner of one of them went to our church. He resisted staying open on Sundays for as long as he could, but finally had to give in. He and his wife ran the station together. She was very active and never missed a Sunday at service. He stopped coming because of business. Sad. I wonder how many other people would rather shop than go to church? (:0(
This kind of stuff is just silly. I can see no reason whatsoever that a Christmas tree should not be allowed in a public building.
P.S. I often felt a little giddy shopping on Sunday. Forbidden fruit or something like that? LOL! (:O)
Just think of how much more productive we will be when no one takes vacation because Christmas is no longer allowed. I mean, if there is no holiday in 12th month, we should really be able to get some work done.
Oh wait.....
I don't really agree.
In the first place, the ACLU is a non-Christian organization who's agenda is so obviously to destroy Christianity. It doesn't matter to me whether Christianity exists or not....but if it falls, I don't want it to be through the chicanery of another religion who is the Wizard behind the ACLU curtain.
The local Catholic college had a "Happy Holidays" sign on it's property last year -- no wreaths, Christmas trees -- just the sign.
This year they don't even have the sign.
Sad.
Kids might not be needed in Florida, or some other places to "harvest the crops", but in some areas, like Missouri, they are needed to help with the haying!! Plus, I don't think a 12 month school would do anyone good, except the teachers. As for Pasco Co, I left there in 1987, and have no regrets. Thankfully, I escaped before the true madness hit.
If these idiots want to try to make the argument that it's a violation of the establishment clause, then we have to ask, how long was this establishment likely to take? After all, Christmas trees and other decorations have been happening for nearly a hundred years, and we still haven't seen an establishment of religion.
So, if it hasn't happened after all that time, why would it happen now, at a time when secularism it taking over the national government by leaps and bounds?
Answer: It's not causing an establishment of religion and that's all the law of the land is concerned with, on its face.
Pasco county is populated by church going, moral,i.e. nice people. I think this is another example of some pinhead attorney making a decision for the entire community. I'm not especially religious, but the idea of banning Christmas or anything Christian is infuriating, and i'm not alone. This is backfiring on the pc/leftist crowd. They're digging their own graves.
Pasco county is populated by church going, moral,i.e. nice people. I think this is another example of some pinhead attorney making a decision for the entire community.
County officials do make decisions impacting the community at large. Most councils use or otherwise have members who are attorneys. Our country's history is replete with attorneys who have been more than willing to sell their integrity for money, position, or some religious peculiarity.
It is just too obvious that the motivation for this is simply to harm Christians....no different from the hippies using the flag in the most disrespectful manner possible.
A pox on people who do this kind of thing no matter which particular religion and related religious theme is being attacked.
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