Posted on 12/16/2004 11:04:00 AM PST by quidnunc
The sky was already murky at 4 p.m. when I locked my bike outside Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese on Fleet Street. Inside, it was even murkier: wood-panelled corridors stretched off into the gloom, men in grey suits were wedged together, smoking Bensons and drinking bitter. No one looked even slightly like an Arch Priest of the Council of British Druid Orders. At 4:10 I found a separate little bar near the back of the pub. As I walked in, a big man with round shoulders and grey hair stared at me and I saw the corner of a magazine poking out from inside his coat. As I watched, the whole cover slowly emerged: a yellowy-purple watercolour of a fairy, and the title: The Witchtower. ‘Steve?’ I said. He nodded.
We bought bitter, found somewhere to sit, and began what turned out to be a three-hour crash course in modern paganism, one of the fastest-growing religions in Britain.
-snip-
So, can a modern pagan just pick any god to worship? I asked. Egyptian? Roman? African? Are there any rules? Steve put his hands self-consciously under the table, ‘No rules,’ he said. ‘Being a pagan is about being free from institutional rules. And the gods? Once you start seeking they choose you, really. Everyone has their own path, but we all celebrate the same festivals: the summer and winter solstices, spring and autumn equinoxes and four other festivals: Samhain, Imbolc, Beltane and Lughnasad.’
Pagans, I discovered during our second pint, are also united by their sense of the injustices done them by Christians. The last 2,000 years of history is a heart-wrenching tale of innocent occult revivals squashed by ignorant Christians …
-snip-
(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.co.uk ...
> Pagans actually eat human flesh.
And you base that slander on.... ?
Remeber, there is at least one pagan on this thread. Are you sayign he actually eats human flesh?
Regarding our country, I don't think you can legitimately take a group that was half made up of ordained pastors and documents which clearly speak of the one God, and twist that into a pagan triumph. We have to share some of our credit with the deists perhaps, but not with the wiccans.
I didn't say sacrifice, I said human sacrifice. And if you don't understand the difference between a man murdering a captive for divination or good fortune (as was the Druidic practice) and the self-sacrifice of a loving God to redeem said man, you haven't the theological or philosophical discernment to continue this conversation.
You need to read up on the history of various Christian churches. For a close-to-home and relatively recent example, try the Christian theocracy in 17th century Massachusetts (though they preferred stoning, to the burning which was popular among European Christian witch- and heretic-killers). Earlier in the 17th century, the Catholic Church imprisoned Galileo for his published agreement with Copernicus' claim that the Earth revolves around the Sun rather than vice versa -- even though he renounced the claim, when threatened by the Inquisition with being burnt at the stake if he didn't (it took the Catholic Church until 1992 to get around to rescinding this verdict of heresy against Galileo, after Pope John Paul II initially ordered a "study" of the matter in 1979).
Lots of pagans, Christians, Jews, Moslems, and others have done a lot of barbaric things in their histories, with the official sanction of their religious authorities. Except when a group is continuing to do these things, as many branches of Islam currently are, it's not a reflection on the legitimacy or sincerity of the beliefs of modern adherents.
Sacrifice is sacrifice. At least the Druids didn't ritually EAT their sacrifice, willing or not.
"Woe to you that call evil good, and good evil: that put darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter."
"Yeah, that whole Communion thing IS rather creepy..."
As a former Catholic, I was always kinda creeped out by the idea that I was consuming the supposedly-literal body & blood of Christ.
Read John 6.
The "Wicker Man" was a great movie.
"And if you don't understand the difference between a man murdering a captive for divination or good fortune (as was the Druidic practice) and the self-sacrifice of a loving God to redeem said man, you haven't the theological or philosophical discernment to continue this conversation."
Didn't God toy with Abraham in his attempt to make Abraham sacrifice his son (by Sarah, not the firstborn of the concubine)?
You have read the rest of the story, haven't you?
Yes they are seductive goddesses. They will choose me again someday.
"You have read the rest of the story, haven't you?"
The rest of what story? Nazism and the occult? The Norse in Ireland? Catholics and cannibals? Brain fluids and Druids?
Sorry - there's a lot going on in this thread!
They still exist along the Amazon and in New Guinea. Of course when they are introduced to Christianity, they gladly give up such pagan practices.
The rest of that story.
God didn't try to make Abraham kill Isaac. He tested Abraham's faith. Once God was satisfied that Abraham would obey Him no matter what the task, Isaac was spared. But you knew that already, didn't you?
You used part of that story to deflect criticism about ancient human sacrifices among druids. That's intellectually dishonest.
But then again, you knew that too.
Yes and it's such an eclectic affair; a little from the Druids, a little from the Norskis, a pinch from Egypt, a dash of Nostradamus and add some Germanic deities to as desired.
Here's a pretty balanced take on Hitler's spirituality.
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhitlerchristian.html
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