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To: rogerv

The problem with socialist societies is at some point they all have to resort to force to compel participation.

I prefer a society where if you and your cohorts wish to share you are free to form a commune...or even a corporation...and indulge yourselves to your heart's content.

But if someone...anyone...wants to move to a mountain top and salute a Nazi flag (extreme example disclaimer) and school their kids in National Socialist thought I want them to be free to do it. I absolutely don't agree with their actions, but I absolutely support their freedom to do it.

And that's the thing.

Our existing society does nothing to stop you from forming a Communist commune...or even a city (Santa Monica comes to mind). But a socialist society will have to prevent me from forming a capitalist commune or city because that is the very essence of socialism: central control.

Socialism without the force of government behind it is called capitalism. The People's Republic of China is a good example of where the government backed off and capitalism rose up all on its own. Now the Communist government there is trying to dial back the nascent freedom because free people don't like socialism.

China is headed to a bloody revolution due to the fact that people like being able to own things.

I prefer freedom.


23 posted on 12/16/2004 10:07:05 AM PST by PeterFinn (The NAACP can have a recount of the Ohio vote if I can have a recount of the Million Man March.)
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To: PeterFinn
I prefer freedom too. I have no love for socialist societies like Stalin's or Mao's. I do think some small scale experiments in socialism have had some success--the Israeli kibbutz, the Oneida community, perhaps St-Simon's group, the early Christians described in the book of Acts. But these were small scale, voluntary, and did not involve forcing anyone to participate. Large scale socialist societies, especially those inspired by Lenin and his notion of a revolutionary vanguard, have been disasters. I am not eager to see that tried here.

Still, I do believe the point that John Stuart Mill made in his essay "On Liberty" is worth making here. We must all accept as the price of living in society that our liberties are limited when not limiting them would lead others to be harmed. That is consistent with leaving people free to engage in what Mill calls 'experiments in living' like the communes you mention.
40 posted on 12/17/2004 9:40:29 AM PST by rogerv
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