Posted on 12/15/2004 7:36:58 AM PST by Nagilum
TOULOUSE, France, Dec 15 (Reuters) - The European Union's trade chief said on Wednesday the EU and the United States could negotiate or litigate in their dispute over government help for Airbus and Boeing (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) , but could not do both.
The United States said last week it may soon take legal action in the dispute, particularly as Airbus could seek government support for a new project -- its A350 fuel-saving, wide-body jet. "It will either be settled by negotiation or litigation. We're not going to do both," EU Trade Commissioner Peter Mandelson said during a visit to the Toulouse headquarters of Airbus, which is 80 percent-owned by EADS (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile, Research) (EAD.DE: Quote, Profile, Research) .
"That's the choice to be made when we have finished our talks about talks," he said, adding that this should take place early next year and perhaps as early as January.
Washington and Brussels have so far resisted launching legal action at the World Trade Organisation (WTO) in their battle over allegations of illegal subsidies to the aviation rivals.
U.S. Trade Representative Robert Zoellick said last week Washington was serious about litigation and would not wait long before taking legal action if talks produced no progress towards a result. A day earlier, he and Mandelson called for more talks.
Airbus's plans for the A350 have heightened tensions in the trans-Atlantic trade dispute. Airbus won approval from its shareholders last Friday to unleash a fresh marketing battle against Boeing by seeking orders for the new wide-body jet.
Mandelson said Airbus's plans for the A350 could only be viewed as provocation "by a rival that doesn't like competition. This market needs competition".
"Airbus's success is breeding envy and jealousy," he added. "Its expanding market share is clearly exerting pressure on its competitors, and this is the main driver of the dispute that has arisen between Airbus and Boeing."
EADS said on Friday it had not yet decided on whether to apply for government loans for development of the A350. Zoellick called the possible loans a "problem".
Airbus overtook Boeing as the world's largest manufacturer of big commercial jets last year, and both companies accuse the other of obtaining illegal subsidies.
Airbus has said it is entitled to apply for a third of the development cost under a 1992 European Union-U.S. trade deal, but Boeing maintains that deal is dead.
"Envy and jealousy." These idiots have a lot of nerve.
Well, I guess it is something they have a lot of experience in, so maybe they know it when they see it. Sounds like a lame expression of guilt to me.
"Airbus's success is breeding envy and jealousy," he added.
I suppose worse things are being bred in France.
Yeah, I was thinking, how are thee defining success? How much money has the EU taxpayer payed into what basically amounts to a money losing social jobs program?
Err...paid, lol.
Don't worry. That's the British spelling.
Well, six or seven years ago our air operation was 100% Boeing. It isn’t anymore.
I’m not part of the air group so I don’t have daily knowledge of the goings-on over there, but evidently Boeing pissed off some people they shouldn’t have.
My understanding is that there were some issues with the planes that Boeing agreed to help address. Then when the time came Boeing backed out. The guy that heads that operation got a bug up his butt and started talks with Airbus.
Evidently it’s a major undertaking (and expensive) to start using other planes. It’s not like driving a Ford for years and suddenly deciding to go with a Nissan. Apparently there are a lot of factors from training AMT’s and pilots to stocking certain parts and lift capabilities and such that have to be taken into consideration.
It sounds like a royal pain in the butt – and an expensive one at that. But they started ordering their aircraft within a year or so of their problems with Boeing.
We still have a bunch of Boeing planes but my understanding is that they intend to ultimately go 100% Airbus. They claim to be *very* happy with not only the planes but with the response they get from the manufacturer.
I guess that when you’re shelling out what you consider to be top-GD-dollar for planes you *expect* the manufacturer to be approachable and responsive to issues that arise. Evidently Airbus is (or was) and Boeing isn’t (or wasn’t).
Airbus was created BECAUSE of envy and jealousy. Get real. Europe's only motivations stem from their 'small manhood disorder'.
Really?
I didn't know that the "palestinians" were working on a double-decker jumbo jet. Or the Sudan. Maybe Cotes d'Ivoire?
Does that include the one that lost its plastic tail over New York?
Over the next few years, Embraer of Brazil is going to be stealing lots of market share from both companies.
Neither company can compete without government subsidies.
I hope the Bush administration hits them hard. If they do not win it may be time to examine our commitment to the WTO.
I cannot believe the arrogance of the EADS/Airbus people. Imagine if the POTUS went around the would with government monies and, in effect, bribed national governments to buy US goods.
Don't these the dudes make the planes where if you stomp on the rudder controls....the tail falls off?
They claim to have never had a problem with them.
The pilots that I’ve heard talking seem to like them too. Some sort of different controls than Boeing uses that they like. Not being a pilot, I don’t know what they’re talking about though.
In fact, the only complaints I’ve heard were from some of the AMTs. At one time they had sort of segregated things and had mechanics that worked on the Boeings and had another group that were trained or whatever to work on Airbus. In this particular case it wasn’t the Airbus mechanics complaining – it was the Boeing mechanics complaining about the Airbus.
I don’t know if they had legitimate complaints or they just view Airbus as a threat that might ultimately cause their job to play out or what.
But yes, seriously, they claim to be happy with Airbus.
The Islaomofascists will be happy with the product line.
What is the blue blazes are you talking about> And spare me the "oh, please" nonsense. If you have a point, please make it. This sort of self important condescension only makes you look foolish, and it has no place here. What are you, a Euro?You sure sound like one.
Japan has been trying to create an areospace industry but they made the mistake of honestly stiking to trade arrangements. Do you think that the Euros would be better at this than the Japanese? If you do then you woulf be quite wrong. Boeing get no subsidies whatsoever, at least at the federal level. So you thin that the administration is making htis up out of thin air? They really are not private corporations at all in the true sense of the world. And if you do not think that the entire state apparatus of France in not at the disposal of its "companies" you are kidding yourself. As for Arianespace, they make no bones about it - they call themselves the commercial arm of the ESA, and are directly funded my the taxpayers. Imagine if NASA had a commercial arm.
Enough of the EU game. It is time to get tough on them.
Again, are you a Euro? You sound like one.
True to that! The Japanese could have wiped the floor with the Euros on aircraft had they been able to rig the same type of subsidy arrangement.
No one can convince me that the Japanese wouldn't have made a better product than the French and Germans given a level playing field. Just look at consumer reports: Mercedes, BMW, Audi - what do they have in common? A bunch of terribly overpriced cars that score terribly in reliability ratings. And lets not even mention Renault, which by the way, has the same part owner as Airbus - the French government.
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