ACLU Files Suit in Pa. Over Evolution

FOX News ^

[wkdaysoff]

HARRISBURG, Pa. — The state American Civil Liberties Union (search) plans to file a federal lawsuit Tuesday against a Pennsylvania school district that is requiring students to learn about alternatives to the theory of evolution (search).

The ACLU said its lawsuit will be the first to challenge whether public schools should teach "intelligent design," which holds that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by some higher power....

[Dimensio]

Please tell me how long ago Creationism was "discarded" as an origin theory? How was it discarded? And by whom? 68% of this country do not believe in evolution as a creation theory. So I'm sure you would believe that the data shows evolution is, and hopefully will be, a discarded theory.

Arguing with "Right in Wisconsin" is a waste of time. Not only is he ignorant, but he is willfully ignorant. He ignores any information that he does not like (which is just about any factual information on the subject). He has had it explained to him before that "Creationism" is not scientific, and he has been told exactly why it is not scientific and he has even been told what he could do to show that it is scientific, but he refuses to address that fact. Instead, he continues on as though Creationism was ever a "scientific" theory without providing any explanation of what it predicts, how it can be tested and what hypothetical observation would falsify it. He has been given numerous references for evidence for evolution, but he ignores them.

He's not here to learn. He's here to shout out his ignorant rantings while ignorant any facts that are inconvenient to him. All would do well to ignore him.

[Right in Wisconsin]

And your answer is.........

[cynicom]

Just trying to find a scientist that will explain matter creating itself. I found one that said I had to understand that matter "always was".

[Modernman]

What type of evolution happened? There are 6 different kinds and only one has been proven.

Six types? LOL......

[Right in Wisconsin]

I did not say the Catholic Church - it had some problems in the middle ages, no one disputes that. I said Christians.

[WildTurkey]

Children from atheist families should be exposed to alternative views and given the free will to make an educated choice.

hmmm.... Children from straight families should be exposed to alternative views and given the free will to make an educated choice.

[Modernman]

How can you test evolution?

Based on Intelligent Design "Theory," would you expect to find wasps in the fossil record before or after ants?

[Modernman]

Actually, it was the Christians who believed the world was round before the rest of the world.

Actually, it was the ancient pagans who came up with that idea first.

[Rudder]

Does that include how matter created itself?

I can't figure out to which post you are referring.

There's no evidence of what was extant just prior to the Big Bang (or, if there really was a Big Bang). I'm not well-versed in physics, but from what little I know, most scientists who have considered the problem are not at all optimistic about ever discovering the origin of the universe...if there was ever an origin.

[Right in Wisconsin]

"These creationists", "you people" is not a personal attack?

By no way, shape or form do we "Creationists" want to invade your "public" schools. There are millions of parochial schools available that are preferable to any public school system. However, should one not have the means to attend parochial school, that is, the general masses, who are we to tell them that evolution is proof of the origin of life without considering that some scientists that theories other than evolution have been suggested? Why do we want to indoctrinate children away from free-thinking?

I didn't say you brainwashed anyone....

Ask me anything about Creationism and I will answer it honestly and to the best of my ability.

[Dimensio]

Which of the 6 theories of evolution has "tons of data"?

In case anyone is wondering, I believe (and he can correct me on this if he likes) that RiW is referring to the "six types of evolution" referenced in Jack Chick's Big Daddy tract, which presents a woefully misinformed "argument" against evolution that opens up on a very low note by claiming that there are "six kinds of evolution" (you can read what they are in the tract). Anyone with any education on the subject would know right at that point that the author has absolutely no clue of the subject, because Chick is attempting to claim (wrongly) that evolution covers not only species diversity, but also the origin of the cosmos, origin of "higher elements", stellar formation and the ultimate origin of life.

This is of course, wrong. There are not "six types of evolution". There is the theory of evolution that attempts to explain the current diversity of life on earth. It only addresses what happens to existing life forms. It does not make claims on how the first life form ultimately came to exist, it does not make claims on how stars formed, it does not make claims on how higher elements appeared in the universe and it certainly does not address the ultimate origin of the cosmos. This has been explained numerous times on FR in the past.

It would appear that Right in Wisconsin has ignored all information regarding evolution presented in various discussions and instead pulled his material directly from a lie-filled Chick tract that gets the definition of the theory wrong from the very beginning. I do hope that I'm mistaken and that RiW can correct me on what he means by "6 theories of evolution", so I'll give him a chance to respond.

[Dimensio]

Does that include how matter created itself?

Why would evolution need to address this? Evolution does not make the claim that "matter created itself".

[Dimensio]

What's with this asserted duality? Why do you assume only Biblical creationism, when there are many other religious stories out there?

[ColoCdn]

Whoa, horsey. Arrogant?

You apparently jumped the gates before they opened. Have you read the threads completely?

When you do, come back and then we'll chat.

[Modernman]

If you find "these Creationists" ignorant, why bother to go into Creationist related stories and posts?

Because creationists make the rest of us conservatives look bad and turn people away from the conservative movement.

[Right in Wisconsin]

Okay, evolution is a theory and therefore cannot be proven to be or not to be truth. Same goes for Creationism. I'll give you that much as I believe in micro-evolution or as you see it, transitional adaptation.

I do take issue about scientists and their integrity. Remember the missing link "Lucy"? How would you explain that scientists handling of his so called evidence?

[Rudder]

Please excuse my ignorance, but I am totaly unfamiliar with the concept of there being 6 types of evolution---where did you get this?

[stremba]

Try googling "pair production" or "Casmir effect". Matter being created is observed pretty regularly in high energy particle accelerators.

[Tuxedo]

hmmm.... Children from straight families should be exposed to alternative views and given the free will to make an educated choice.

Why did I just know someone was going to say that.... anyway, yes I suppose so. Isn't that already happening? But the problem is kids are being taught homosexuality is not a choice, but just a way some people are born (or oriented). Life revolves around FREE WILL, and the more informed you are the better you can make choices in life.

[Dimensio]

You apparently jumped the gates before they opened. Have you read the threads completely?

I have read it now. I missed that you were not the person who originally raised the issue of thermodynamics, and I apologize for calling you arrogant, however I still believe that you overreacted to the inital rebuttal.