Stupid is as stupd does...
Posted on 12/11/2004 2:47:14 PM PST by nosofar
TAIPEI, Taiwan (AP) - Taiwan's pro-independence parties suffered an upset defeat in legislative elections Saturday, a result sure to please Chinese leaders who regard the island as part of the mainland. The coalition that included President Chen Shui-bian's party had been widely favored to win control of the legislature. But the opposition rallied, keeping its grip on parliament.
The opposition won 90 of the 176 seats that are directly elected by voters, while the president's group won 76 seats, the Central Election Commission said. The remaining 10 seats were still unconfirmed, the commission said.
Another 49 seats will be divided up by the parties according to the number of votes they won in the direct election.
An official with the Nationalist Party, the biggest opposition group, said his coalition won 116 seats. "We have exceeded more than half the total legislative seats. We thank the voters for their support," the official, Lin Feng-cheng, told reporters.
Cheng Wen-tsan, a spokesman for the president's party, conceded defeat. "We haven't reached our target," he said.
The president's Democratic Progressive Party promised voters it would rewrite the constitution and continue pushing for a new Taiwanese identity separate from China's. Both pledges angered Beijing, which views them as part of Chen's policy of "creeping independence."
(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...
"We haven't reached our target," he said.Similar to the US democratic party, refusing to use the past tense? Phrased as if the election is still continuing on?
Nice attempt at a straw man argument, but it is not what I asked. Japan is not Saudi Arabia and Shinto is not Islam. Your attempt to compare them obviously shows you have no idea about either.
Japan is not a threat for rearmament. The culture is still largely pacifist, despite the bushido traditions, especially concerning any nuclear options.
All the problems that made Japan vulnerable during WWII, massive imports of food, oil and other essential resources, would stunt any real attempts for regional power.
The Pacific theater rivaled the Eastern Front in terms of savage fighting on both sides. The Pacific vets are understandibly angry at the Japanese, but I think that anger is matched by ETO veterans once you bring the death camps issue up.
Hopefully you are correct, but I keep thinking about those reports of the Chinese premier joyfully watching, over and over again, the video of the towers going down. Can't help believing that he represents collective ( please excuse ) opinion amongst the populace. It's so hard to visualize all this changing, even over time. It runs deep.
I imagine the cost of a free North Korea would be huge. (Probably larger than when the Berlin Wall fell.) Who will pick up the tab? Can the South Koreans absorb it?
I would compare it to the alternative, the cost of forever preparing for war with the North, and the cost if war with the north ever came.
West Germans like to complain about the cost of absorbing the East, but thats because they never paid the full cost of defending themselves. War avoided is lots cheaper than war fought, and especially war lost. And imagine the human potential that is locked up in the north, waiting to be set free. But I agree, unification will bring problems for a decade or so. I would never argue that it wasn't worth it.
The problem is no one wants the task of taking out the nutjob NoKo running the country right now.
I concur with your assessment, btw. I also think that the Chinese would prefer to have a free Korea as an intermediary between it and the rest of the world, sort of a halfway Hong Kong that it controls and can keep as Japan-bait if necessary.
If the U.S. could figure out the right language to use in an agreement with the Koreans (probably not far from the Taiwan language) then China might go for it. Or if they could somehow give China assurances that the border would not be patrolled...ah, I don't know what they would be happy with, and that's kinda the problem. You can't tell what commies will do. We need to get rid of those bastards every bit as much as we need to get rid of Kim. China has hawked missile platforms and a lot of nuke equipment to nutjobs and terrorists!
They can, but won't want to. It will be a huge crush of relatives coming south to take advantage of the strong familial ties Koreans have.
The Korean people, unfortunately, will look to us for a bailout, whatever happens. I hope we get out of there ASAP.
Thanks for both replies. I agree it's worth it, and hope the financial burden isn't too bad and is shared by more than one or two countries.
Why do we emphasize democracy....more than we do liberty? Democracy does not guarantee freedom and liberty (see France, EU.)
Democracy got us 8 yrs of Bill Clinton, the IRS, Social inSecurity, etc. I'm not sure if a benevolent capitalist dictatorship is not better in China than a democratic lulu like they have in the ROC. Hmm.
North Korea and South Korea will not immediately unite if NK falls. The South Korean leadership already have done a study on this when West Germany and East Germany reunited. Reason, the economic burden of the unification on South Korea is too great. They saw what happened to West Germany when they tried to absorb East Germany with a standard of living 1/4 of West Germany's. North Korea is much worst. I think South Korea will want international aid to stabilize the North before they eventually reunite. China will probably occupy North Korea and will pull out if the US agrees to pull out of South Korea.
reasonable scenario.
I don't consider teh Chinese commies in teh sense that they follow communisim but they do act and hld on to power like communists.
Same here. The exception might be that they still educate kids to believe in Communism and they still preach the Communist propaganda.
There has never been any regime that actually followed communism, anyway. The whole philosophy is just a tool to put an authoritarian dictator or oligarchy in power.
If there were a regime that actually followed communism, its people would steal everything and move somewhere the government DID protect private property rights.
I don't think you're 100% right, simply because the pressure by some to get family members out will be too great. Heck, as soon as one family member of the PM or President gets out, the whole country will be clamoring for theirs.
It's not like Germany, where the two sides had some family connections but in a Western sense. My second cousin really has very little connection to me. However, in Korea, there is much more importance placed on family relationships and obligations. That will factor highly in any collapse, just as it currently plays a role in the present negotiations--and the food and funding concessions the ROK seems to give the DPRK daily.
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