Taiwan's Pro-Independence Parties Defeated

Sacramento Bee ^ | December 11, 2004 | William Foreman

[nosofar]

TAIPEI, Taiwan (AP) - Taiwan's pro-independence parties suffered an upset defeat in legislative elections Saturday, a result sure to please Chinese leaders who regard the island as part of the mainland. The coalition that included President Chen Shui-bian's party had been widely favored to win control of the legislature. But the opposition rallied, keeping its grip on parliament.

The opposition won 90 of the 176 seats that are directly elected by voters, while the president's group won 76 seats, the Central Election Commission said. The remaining 10 seats were still unconfirmed, the commission said.

Another 49 seats will be divided up by the parties according to the number of votes they won in the direct election.

An official with the Nationalist Party, the biggest opposition group, said his coalition won 116 seats. "We have exceeded more than half the total legislative seats. We thank the voters for their support," the official, Lin Feng-cheng, told reporters.

Cheng Wen-tsan, a spokesman for the president's party, conceded defeat. "We haven't reached our target," he said.

The president's Democratic Progressive Party promised voters it would rewrite the constitution and continue pushing for a new Taiwanese identity separate from China's. Both pledges angered Beijing, which views them as part of Chen's policy of "creeping independence."

[Clemenza]

A: Racism. It was easier to make Nazis symphathetic because they were white. The caricatures of the Japanese in popular culture were much worse than that of the Germans. Nevermind the fact that there was no large scale equivalent among Japanese Americans of the German-American bund, which used to have large rallies throughout the USA waving swastikas and praising the Fueher.

Japan has been a pretty good allie of the USA. It is a highly secular, advanced, "socially progressive" society (yeech), not a shintoist dictatorship. As a matter of fact, it is probably the most nonreligious society outside of Europe.

[Destro]

Musing - The reason why the Chinese have not ended the North Korean problem as they would like (China is done with the North as an ally) is because America does not want to close South Korean bases - even if the North falls.

China could easily feed all of North Korea - but does not because the Chinese want the North Koreans half starved to control them. The Chinese would love to see a unified Korea but not with American bases there.

A unified Korea with American bases or with an American military agreement means that the US has force projection right at the Chinese border.

If America said that it would leave the peninsula if Korea was unified in a peacful manner and not get in a military alliance with her then the Chinese would make the North collapse.

If the North fell right now I can see Chinese troops entering it under the guise of keeping the peace and order and occupying the North - not because of a land grab but to keep America away from their border.

Comments/Thoughts?

[JohnnyZ]

..... and Lien Chan immediately went further down the road of reunification with communist China on the PRC's terms.

[JohnnyZ]

If America said that it would leave the peninsula if Korea was unified in a peacful manner and not get in a military alliance with her then the Chinese would make the North collapse.

And then adopt a unified Korea as their puppet.

[Unam Sanctam]

Sanmin zhuyi jiu neng tongyi Zhongguo!

[Destro]

Possible.

I am not saying that is what should happen but that is the reason North Korea is still around - as a buffer state for China to keep America one country away from her border.

FOr this reason, China - which can feed North Korea easily with rice does not do so - so she can keep it lean, mean, isolated because hunger makes you crazy under some Chinese control through food aid.

[B Knotts]

Shintoism is a militant religion that promotes worldwide Japanese domination.

Don't you mean Bushido?

[StJacques]

wagglebee, I'm with you on fearing Japanese rearmament. What bothers me is the persistence of the Japanese in dragging their feet on permitting foreign enterprise to trade in Japan. They've made some progress, but not nearly enough. If you couple that protectionist mindset with remilitarization, you have a recipe for real trouble.

Things actually work as they now are, why change them?

And you are also correct to hope for internal change in mainland China produced by capitalist growth. It will not look like capitalist social values as we know them, but they will be more open and friendly.

[wagglebee]

Shinto is their main religion, Bushido is a military code. The two are very much intertwined.
http://allsands.com/History/People/shintoreligion_wxv_gn.htm

[wagglebee]

As crazy as it may sound, I would prefer for North Korea to have a Chinese "puppet" regime to Kim Jong Il. I think the Chinese are probably more concerned about North Korea than we are, the threat of a nuclear North Korea controlled by a madman is far greater to the Chinese mainland than to America.

I basically think the Chinese are far more interested in continuing to gain billions of American dollars through exports than they are in becoming "confrontational" with America.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

As a direct result of our imports, China has become an economic and industrial GIANT.

Yep, and it doesn't help that Klinton signed sweetheart deals with China to our (and a lot of other countries') detriment. Klinton didn't care what he was agreeing to, he only cared about padding his fat wallet. The only reason China is where they are at today economically is because of the outrageous special treatment that we gave them.

Ever wonder why the whole world is pissed at us right now? This could be part of the reason. Maybe it's more than just lost Iraqi contracts. Iraq is peanuts compared to China.

[Massachusetts]

While it may not seem so, China has some serious domestic issues that threaten its ability to become a true superpower.

From CIA World Factbook 2004:

"The government has struggled to (a) sustain adequate jobs growth for tens of millions of workers laid off from state-owned enterprises, migrants, and new entrants to the work force; (b) reduce corruption and other economic crimes; and (c) keep afloat the large state-owned enterprises, many of which had been shielded from competition by subsidies and had been losing the ability to pay full wages and pensions. From 80 to 120 million surplus rural workers are adrift between the villages and the cities, many subsisting through part-time, low-paying jobs. Popular resistance, changes in central policy, and loss of authority by rural cadres have weakened China's population control program, which is essential to maintaining long-term growth in living standards. Another long-term threat to growth is the deterioration in the environment, notably air pollution, soil erosion, and the steady fall of the water table especially in the north. China continues to lose arable land because of erosion and economic development. Beijing says it will intensify efforts to stimulate growth through spending on infrastructure - such as water supply and power grids - and poverty relief and through rural tax reform. Accession to the World Trade Organization helps strengthen its ability to maintain strong growth rates but at the same time puts additional pressure on the hybrid system of strong political controls and growing market influences. China has benefited from a huge expansion in computer internet use. Foreign investment remains a strong element in China's remarkable economic growth. Growing shortages of electric power and raw materials will hold back the expansion of industrial output in 2004."

The country is being held together only by massive American investments in their economy and in exports. If we declared a boycott tomorrow of all PRC products, the country would collapse economically in 90 days.

There is also a massively underreported AIDS epidemic in the rural areas that could have disastorous long term effects.

[B Knotts]

Yes, there is some connection between the two, but wasn't Bushido, and not Shinto per se, the driving force of Japanese imperalism?

[wagglebee]

My understanding is that the two are basically intertwined.

[killjoy]

Shintoism is a militant religion that promotes worldwide Japanese domination.

Ever been to Japan? Somehow I seriously doubt it.

[wagglebee]

I've never been to Saudi Arabia, but I have a really good idea of what Islam is about.

[FreeReign]

The opposition won 90 of the 176 seats that are directly elected by voters, while the president's group won 76 seats, the Central Election Commission said. The remaining 10 seats were still unconfirmed, the commission said. Another 49 seats will be divided up by the parties according to the number of votes they won in the direct election.

59 seats remain to be decided. Chen's party currently trails by 14 seats. How is this thing over?

[Quix]

You could easily be right about Bush and Taiwan. But I hope you're wrong. I hope he has more integrity about it.

Am glad the independence folks are not screaming successes. Such would make things much more dangerous, if they were, I think.

There's enough danger without tweaking the nose of the dragon.

[Polybius]

As crazy as it may sound, I would prefer for North Korea to have a Chinese "puppet" regime to Kim Jong Il. I think the Chinese are probably more concerned about North Korea than we are, the threat of a nuclear North Korea controlled by a madman is far greater to the Chinese mainland than to America.

I don't think that it is "crazy" at all. I fully agree with your assessment.

I would go so far as to welcome a Chinese occupation of North Korea.

[RockinRight]

China will move more towards capitalism over the next 30 years.