Earth with no sun.
Vacation in Miami, back-lit by the glowing gas they pump into the air for light.
Posted on 12/11/2004 11:15:46 AM PST by SamAdams76
...The short answer to your question is that no one knows the answer. I have come across some interesting information, though, and I will try to give you my thoughts on the matter from a physicist's point of view, but you might also want to resubmit the question with my answer attached and see if you can get further input from a biologist.
First, let's consider how long the planet could support large land animals like ourselves. Just think about the temperature difference between night and day and it should be pretty clear that the atmosphere (at least the troposphere, where we live) cools quite rapidly by radiation. It should only be a matter of days before the surface temperature drops below freezing everywhere on the planet. In, fact in six months to a year, the temperature should drop to less than 150 Kelvin, half its current value. I would not expect any biological activity to remain at this temperature. However, there may be organisms which could survive in a suspended state if they were to freeze before they starved. That's something a biologist would have to comment on. So I would say that an upper bound for the survival of large land animals would be less than six months, just based on temperature. However, it should be much less than this since the food chain, which starts with sunlight (which plants use), would break down almost immediately.
What would happen with the oceans? Well, there's a tremendous amount of latent heat in the oceans, which would help to warm the atmosphere. However, once the surface of the ocean began to freeze, it would become more and more insulated by the cover of ice. Thus, it appears that the transfer of heat from the ocean to the atmosphere could be significant only in the early stages of the cooling. However, the insulating effect of the ice would allow the oceans to stay above freezing for quite a while, though once again, the food chain would break down radidly, and the supply of oxygen would be cut off.
Now, there is another energy source which is significant - geothermal heat. There are organisms which live on the seafloor near geothermal vents - fissures from which superheated water laden with various gases and nutrients are expelled. The question is - are these organisms dependent only on the nutrients and heat that they recieve from the vents, or are they connected to the rest of the food chain? There are many more qualified to answer this than I. I wouldn't be surprised if they were dependent on the oxygen generated by photosynthesis, and thus vulnerable.
I have also seen mention of organisms found in core samples from quite deep in the Earth's crust which may depend only on geothermal heat, but I don't know how credible this is.
Of course, it's possible that technology would allow a very small population of humans to survive, just as they might on a lunar base. However, if such a facility does not already exist, it is doubtful whether one could be constructed before the atmosphere froze out onto the ground, especially since it would probably take more people to construct it than it would be able to support. It might be possible to modify a bomb shelter to serve such a purpose, but it would need to be able to generate breathable air, and there would need to be a way of obtaining fuel. With no solar energy, you would need to use nuclear energy, fossil fuel, or geothernal energy.
In short, we wouldn't last long, but there may be organisms which could survive indefinitely, either by freezing before they starve, or because they don't depend on solar energy at all. I would definitely recommend submitting this to a biologist for further comment.
RE "No, it's a George Harrison song along with "While my Guitar Gently Weeps."
Ahhh. That makes more sense. It just doesn't sound like a McCartney tune, so I leapt to the conclusion that it was a Lennon tune. Thanks for the clarification.
RE "I'm pretty sure it would expand and go supernova "
Expand yes. Supernova NO. Our sun is too small to fuse the heavy elements that are required to cause a supernova. I forget which elements bigger than helium can be fused by a star the size of our sun, but eventually it'll just burn out and be a dense cinder.
Since that was obviously directed at me...
Yeah, to the best of my knowledge, the physics of stars the size of our sun is well understood and is described in any Astromony 101 class.
Neutrinos are a problem. And since I am definately not an expert, I don't claim to understand the physics behind the creation of neutrinos. I also don't claim to understand the physics of the big bang, but the physics there are also way out of the realm of the simple fusion processes that occurs in the sun.
True fact: A human being generates 5000 times more heat per unit mass than the sun.
100 watts/ 100 kg = 1 watt/kg
4e26 watts / 2e30 kg = 0.0002 watts/kg
The good news is that a comet or large asteroid will likely wipe out most of the life on earth well before the sun goes out.
Earth with no sun.
Vacation in Miami, back-lit by the glowing gas they pump into the air for light.
If one were to listen carefully from just a bit afar, one would hear a big sigh as Gaia finally goes back to rest.
With my luck it would happen at midnight.
I would have to go back to using a battery powered watch instead of my solar powered one.
Probably about the same as a rat turd dropped in an hourglass.
That was one of the best Twilight Zones, although the main premise was that the earth was moving towards the sun (the main character was dreaming this, in reality, it was moving away from the sun, freezing everything out).
Sam, let's suppose you had a redneck-buddy on the other side who would, on the count of three and a toss of the beer can leap inside simultaneously with your ground-breaking experiment, what then?
IIRC, it's Hydrogen to Helium.
Helium to Carbon and Oxygen.
Carbon and Oxygen to Iron.
Iron is the absolute end.
1.44 solar masses is the Chandrasekhar limit. Below that is too little mass to generate a supernova.
K.....knew it was something like that, it's only been 40 years since I watched it LOL
You sure this wasn't the M&M's factory?
Yawn...yesterday's news...the sun went out several weeks ago. I haven't seen it here in New France (formerly known as New England) since.
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