82nd gets 60 armored Humvees for use in Iraq [1st Cav Div was already providing equipment to 82nd]

FortBragg.com ^ | Dec 11, 2004 | Henry Cuningham

[Mike Fieschko]

U.S. Army photo by Spc. Andy Miller

Soldiers of the 325th Airborne Infantry Regiment conduct pre-combat checks on their new Humvees at Camp Striker near Baghdad International Airport on Thursday.

The 1st Cavalry Division has provided the 82nd Airborne Division armored Humvees for operations in Iraq, division officials at Fort Bragg said Friday.

''We requested additional armored vehicles to ensure our paratroopers had the best equipment,'' said Maj. Amy Hannah, a division spokeswoman at Fort Bragg.

The 82nd received more than 60 M-1114 "up-armored" vehicles in Iraq, Hannah said.

Many soldiers in Iraq say the greatest threat they face is from roadside bombs that can be detonated by remote control as convoys pass. Convoys, especially those that have few visible weapons, are subject to ambush.

Two battalions from the 82nd Airborne Division have been temporarily assigned to the 1st Cavalry Division to help provide security for Iraqi elections on Jan. 30.

Soldiers from the 2nd and 3rd Battalions of the 325th Airborne Infantry Regiment began arriving in Baghdad in early December.

Vehicle protection gained significance Wednesday when a National Guard soldier publicly questioned Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld about the lack of armor. Rumsfeld told the soldier, ''You go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you might want or wish to have.''

Apparently, the 1st Cavalry Division was already providing the equipment to the 82nd before there was a furor over vehicle armor.

The military has three types of armored vehicles:

• The ''up-armored'' version with protection installed in a U.S. factory including hardened sides, top, bottom and glass. The military calls this level-one protection. The M-1114s the 82nd will be using are equipped with additional armor on the sides and bottom to protect the crew from small arms ammunition and mines.

• Add-on armor from a factory-produced kit that is bolted on to unarmored vehicles. The military calls this level-two protection.

• Vehicles with metal plates bolted on as a stop-gap measure. The guardsman complained to Rumsfeld about soldiers having to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal to armor their vehicles. The military calls this level-three protection. One newspaper referred to this as ''hillbilly armor.''

Congressional request

Rep. Robin Hayes [R-NC] and other elected officials have made proposals for improving the armor available to the troops.

Hayes on Thursday wrote to Rumsfeld, asking him to speed up the process of getting vehicle armor.

Hayes also asked Rumsfeld to release four Armored Gun Systems from a Pennsylvania warehouse for use by the 82nd.

The Army decided to field another gun system, so these four were stored.

''It simply makes no sense to allow an armored gun system that has been type-classified and tested to collect dust when soldiers are dying in the streets of Iraq,'' Hayes wrote.

Hannah, the division spokeswoman, declined to comment on Hayes' proposal.

Army officials have expressed concerns about the availability of spare parts for the system that went out of production eight years ago. The manufacturer has pledged to provide spare parts if funding is available.

Military editor Henry Cuningham can be reached at cuninghamh@fayettevillenc.com or 486-3585.

[AQGeiger]

When Sgt. AQGeiger left for Iraq early this week (he's in the 2/325), his company didn't even take their regular Humvees. Why? Because there were armored Humvees waiting for them.

I won't hold my breath waiting for the media to make a fuss over soldiers getting the supplies they need.

[Mike Fieschko]

NC ping

[Mike Fieschko]

I won't hold my breath waiting for the media to make a fuss over soldiers getting the supplies they need.

What about Rep Hayes? Has he been in front of this, before Spc Wilson's question at the Secretary's Call? (I'm in Raleigh, so don't hear much about him. I salute the other half of your heart.)

[ProudVet77]

Have to admit though that the problem we're having with lack of armored vehicles says something about the procurement procedures of the military. Sometimes we read about systems that sound really good on paper that don't survive their first contact with the enemy. An example would be replacing the A-10 with the JSF. Great that we need less different types of aircraft but the JSF is not nearly as armored as an A-10. The Humvee fits this pattern. We should have ensured 15 years ago that 50% of Humvees built were armored, along with support vehicles.

[calex59]

Humvees were never meant to be armored. They are not, or were not, intended as a combat vehicle that required armor, they are a replacement for the Jeep. Traditionally, wheeled vehicles have never been armored. This is hardly a "lack of armored vehicles." Tanks are armored vehicles, Strykers are lightly armored vehicles, as are Bradlys. Humvees are large jeeps. Now that we have found out how the terrorists in Iraq are fighting, IE:with roadside bombs, etc. We are armoring everything. The production of armored Humvees have increased from 20 vehicles a month to 400+ per month. This has happened in the last year. Hardly a sign that the armed forces are sitting around doing nothing. Don't get caught up in the MSM hype. Where have you been for the last several years, the moon? Don't you realize what the media is trying to do to this country and the armed forces?

[ProudVet77]

Well aware of what the MSM is trying to do. But that does not mean the military always does a good job at procurement. I worry for example that Rumsfeld is not a big fan of armor. He tends to think all wars can be fought with SOFs. That I disagree with. Fallujah was a great example of the value of armor.
There are lots of things that concern me. Another example is the trend away from Naval gunfire support for Marines. And the Air Force focusing on shiny jets and space and not on AC-130s and A-10s.
Just because I have concerns doesn't mean I buy into the MSM hype. I've seen the military from the inside and have seen how tops down decision making leads to errors sometimes. I happen to like Rumsfeld, but I can still disagree with him.