Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

NY Newsday ^ | 12/9/04 | RICHARD N. OSTLING

[Michael_Michaelangelo]

NEW YORK -- A British philosophy professor who has been a leading champion of atheism for more than a half-century has changed his mind. He now believes in God -- more or less -- based on scientific evidence, and says so on a video released Thursday.

At age 81, after decades of insisting belief is a mistake, Antony Flew has concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe. A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature, Flew said in a telephone interview from England.

[pnome]

But I do not doubt that Jesus lived.

It is his claim of divinity that is extraordinary, and which requires more proof than the words of his followers.

My mother's claim to me, on the other hand, is not extraordinary. It is also very probable.

[Dimensio]

Just look at any aspect of life around you and compare what accident would have provided - something simple, bland, with few variations.

Ah, classic argument from incredulity mixed in with unsupported assumptions as a premise.

[Dimensio]

Although it touches on ELS, the highly popularized Bible Codes, it's not an ELS book at all.

Please don't tell me that it gives the refuted codswallop that is ELS any positive spin.

[Dimensio]

As the saying goes, there's no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole.

Yeah. And a watched pot never boils.

That one's false, also.

[Dimensio]

100%

Really? And to which "God" would they pray? Which 'God' entity -- out of the thousands worshipped throughout human history -- would they suddenly decide exists?

Regardless, I say to all who accept Christ welcome to the family.

Flew has not 'accepted Christ'. He has said that he is willing to believe that there might have been a 'prime mover' who started the universe, and he still does not believe that there is an afterlife.

[Raycpa]

Really? Where are these witness accounts documented?

I take it any witness documentation that was compiled in the bible would automatically be excluded by you. Why ?

[pnome]

"You really do not understand Christianity. None of us believe that we have a "lot of good morals". We are poor sinners who are hopeless without Jesus."

It is in what you define as a sin then. Not your ability or inability to follow your own teachings.

What I am trying to say, is that Christians are, in my experience, good, healthy, productive people. As long as they aren't trying to force me to act like one or to be one. That's where it all starts to go downhill.

[ColoCdn]

Also, Leader is about 30 miles from where I was born.

[BRL]

Wow!

It has taken this highly intelligent individual 81 years to figure out what I observed at about age 11 when I looked at the complexities of my own hand and said "There must be a God behind this"

[Dimensio]

Another one abandons their godless and ridiculous hypothesis of evolution.

Ah, I guess you wouldn't be you if you weren't posting a lie.

Flew has not rejected evolution. Still, I'm not surprised that you claim that he has, because it fits your pattern of dishonesty.

[Dimensio]

You weren't looking hard enough.

[Dimensio]

It has taken this highly intelligent individual 81 years to figure out what I observed at about age 11 when I looked at the complexities of my own hand and said "There must be a God behind this"

So at age 11 you lacked the ability to understand that you were appealing to the logical fallacy of argument from incredulity?

Also, at age 11 you believed in a completely impersonal deity that started up the universe, then left it alone after that? And you didn't believe in an afterlife?

[savedbygrace]

So he's playing both Red and Black, and will be properly chagrined when it comes up 00.

IOW, he thinks he's hedging his bet, but since he lacks understanding, he's missed it completely. For some reason, I'm thinking of Mordecai. He thought he was pretty clever, too.

[Dimensio]

I take it any witness documentation that was compiled in the bible would automatically be excluded by you. Why ?

Don't make this assumption until after I've rejected it. Whether or not I reject it will be based upon how it is presented in the Bible. If the Bible contains multiple, independent accounts from each of the witnesses (or even a good sampling thereof), I might find it more credible than if it's simply the telling of a story that claims a plethora of witnesses, even if said story is repeated four times.

Of course, witness accounts across multiple sources would be even better than a single compliation that was edited after the fact.

[StonyBurk]

Ah but th equestion is what proof do we have the pnome
ever lived?

[Raycpa]

It is his claim of divinity that is extraordinary, and which requires more proof than the words of his followers.

You reject the evidence, fine. Many did during Jesus's time and many did afterwords. Just realize that you are varying your standard of required evidence to suit preconceived notions of what is true. Even the Jews did not do this then. A man could not testify for himself but when 2 or more witnesses agreed, it was taken as truth.

My mother's claim to me, on the other hand, is not extraordinary. It is also very probable.

It is also probable she isn't your mother. Again, you have a sliding scale for what is required as evidence and this scale is based on preconceived notions of what is true. You believe your mother is your mother so you don't have much evidence to convince you. While you believe Christ wasn't divine so you require more evidence than what is humanly possible to provide.

There is nothing wrong with a sliding scale, its just important to understand how your own bias affects your thinking and your acceptance of what is true.

[Dimensio]

IOW, he thinks he's hedging his bet, but since he lacks understanding, he's missed it completely.

Hedging his bet? How is he doing that? He says that there might have been an intelligent agent behind the universe, but that it is an impersonal agent and that he still doesn't believe in an afterlife. What kind of bet-hedging is this?

[Raycpa]

What I am trying to say, is that Christians are, in my experience, good, healthy, productive people

And as a Christian who has led many bible studies where we "bare ourselves", I can tell you unequivocally. you are wrong. We are no different that the rest. We have the same divorce rates, we have the same sins. We sin just as well as the next guy who doesn't know Christ. We have the same failings as everyone else. Maybe more-so because we have hit bottom more than most.

[Dimensio]

The "There is no afterlife" argument is not self-evident.

Given the positing of the claim of continuation of consciousness beyond the cessation of brain activity, I would think that the onus is upon the claimaint to demonstrate the validity of such a scenario.

[BRL]

No, At age 11 I could look at the world around me and say "There must be a God"

I would say that taking 81 years to see the obvious does not convince me of this man's intellectual prowess

Imagine these headlines:

Man, age 75, agrees the South lost the war!

Woman, age 42, Comes to realiztion that giving her son cocaine as a child was a bad idea!

Dog, three years after shocker collar is applied, realizes not to cross the line where the white flags are!

Man, age 26, realizes that living at home has some serious drawbacks to his dating life!

Woman, age 67, on her death bed dying from cancer, agrees smoking may be bad for her health