Sen. Harry Reid - "Social Security - most successful social program in the history of the world"

MSNBC ^ | 12/05/04

[MonroeDNA]

I've been putting money into SS for 30 years.

They can keep every dime of it, if they let me out.

AARP grannies are incredibly selfish.

[Libloather]

I've been putting money into SS for 30 years. They can keep every dime of it, if they let me out.

You must be a newbie. They keep everything if you're in or out.

I thought the same thing - a few years ago. Right now, I want back all invested dollars, even factoring in inflation, gas prices, the Carter/*Crinton years and both of those recessions. Then, I'll call it fair and square...

[FITZ]

Except for stuffing your $$$$ in a mattress WHAT AIN'T ?

A lot of things aren't --- such as investing your money in a good solid American business which provides a livelihood for workers and their families, help the American economy and help your money grow.

[ashtanga]

They keep sending the same old ghouls in front of the cameras, with the same old tired hate the rich rhetoric. Heck, can't they at least pretend to be sane? Do some Americans, other than crack smokers and Clintonistas, think that there is a "social security lock box" and all the rest of it? What an astoundingly dim witted electorate.

[uncbob]

A lot of things aren't --- such as investing your money in a good solid American business which provides a livelihood for workers and their families, help the American economy and help your money grow.

With so many retiring and not as many kids the CONSUMER base goes down. Once you are retired and not raising kids you don't BUY as much need as much clothes etc etc.
Money grows when the POPULATION GROWS

Who are all those NEW businesses going to sell their products to people in retirement communities ???

Only business growing will be HEALTH CARE as the old people have more health problems and who is going to pay for that

What is needed is a GROWING POPULATION or at least a replenishing one

[uncbob]

AARP grannies are incredibly selfish.

True but then they are your and my grannies so talk to them

[FITZ]

We definitely have a growing population ---- it's growing faster than ever -- doubled in the past 50 years. We're the fastest growing in population country there is ---- but just like Mexico with it's extremely high birth rate, our Social Security program is in trouble. Mexico's pension plan is going bankrupt even before our own --- which is why they're insisting they have access to ours. Population growth can't be the only factor.

[maro]

You don't get it. There's a difference between a legitimate business and a Ponzi scheme. A Ponzi scheme is doomed to failure because the ONLY source of repayment is recruiting more investors. A bank's source of profit is the spread between interest paid to depositors and interest received from borrowers. If you think that there's no difference, you would be indifferent between a nice $10,000 balance at your local bank and $10,000 given to pyramid scheme.

[Arizona]

"AARP grannies are incredibly selfish."

I dunno. I'm a granny who will turn 62 next month. I'm kinda looking forward to getting the SS which I paid to the gov't when you were just a young whippersnapper. Does that make me incredibly selfish? :)

az

[uncbob]

You don't get it. There's a difference between a legitimate business and a Ponzi scheme. A Ponzi scheme is doomed to failure because the ONLY source of repayment is recruiting more investors. A bank's source of profit is the spread between interest paid to depositors and interest received from borrowers. If you think that there's no difference, you would be indifferent between a nice $10,000 balance at your local bank and $10,000 given to pyramid scheme.

I do get you don't get it

The stock market and the banks are both based on more putting in then taking out

Got your retirement in stocks

Guess what all you have is a piece of paper that says you own part of the company
Try and live on those dividends when they ain't selling that mich cause the old geezers are NOT big consumers and then guess what try selling that stock for $$$ and see what happens as tons of other geezers are trying to unload for $$$ . Hint there aren't enough buyers around and the ones that want to buy will do so at greatly reduced prices

Give you another hint that bank doesn't have your $10000 . They have a bare minimum on hand the rest is LOANED out . That works OK as long as there isn't a bunch of retirees wanting their $$$ money to eat BUT as the population ages and is retiring they are going to want that $$$ and when there is too many wanting and not enough putting in GUESS WHAT

[maro]

This is silly. It's a good thing that banks loan out most of the money that comes in--that's how they earn money. If they kept all the money in vaults, how could they pay interest to depositors? Your allegation that banks will go bust as people age and withdraw money to "eat" is also wrong. America has aged quite a bit in the last ten years. To my knowledge, no banks have gone bust because armies of ravenous retirees have shown up wanting to withdraw money for the buffet. Japan is much older than the US. Same can be said there. Even if it were true, that money would into the hands of people owning restaurants, and they would want to put it in . . . banks. Learn some economics before spouting off.

[uncbob]

America has aged quite a bit in the last ten years. To my knowledge, no banks have gone bust because armies of ravenous retirees have shown up wanting to withdraw money for the buffet

That's cause up till now SS wasn't in trouble either cause you didn't have as MANY retired as contributing. Have you not been reading WHY SS is in trouble .Well those same demographics will affect the banks and stock market

[kittymyrib]

Unless you count the plan put in by the city of Galveston, TX, when they opted out of S.S. Now their retirees are getting an average of $4000+ a month for the same amount they'd have put into the black-hole of S.S. Of course, they don't have to pay off old foreigners who come feed at the SS trough, or the deadbeats who claim disablity, etc. Talk about delusional!

[maro]

The banks will be fine. People don't eat money. People eat food bought with money. When they do, other people have the money. These other people will deposit the money in banks.

[uncbob]

You miss the point the banks DON'T have that $$$$ it is loaned out and as long as there are more people saving and putting in that works
When they demand for withdrawal becomes high you have problems

[maro]

IF banks kept all the money on hand that depositors deposited with them, THEN they WOULD be Ponzi schemes, since the ONLY way to pay the modest interest paid to depositors would be new deposits. BUT, since banks are generally not Ponzi schemes, ONLY SOME MONEY IS KEPT ON HAND. The rest is lent out, to earn interest at a rate higher than is paid on deposits. THAT is a legitimate business, and that is why banks are not Ponzi schemes. In other words, your criticism of banks is absolutely wrong-headed, since you would have them become Ponzi schemes when they are not.

Let me guess--you are in "multi-level marketing."

[uncbob]

I am a retired engineer

[MarkL]

But it has been a success until now...

First off, the amount of money coming in through FICA taxes has been far more than the government needs to pay the current benefits. So, our congress-critters have had a windfall of funds that are not counted in the official budget to spend in any way they see fit, i.e. to buy votes.

The only problem, Harry, is that things on the horizon simply aren't that rosey. When SS was first implemented, very few, if any, recipients actually received more money back in benefits than they put into the system. The simple fact is that people generally wern't expected to live much past the age you began to start receiving benefits.

Couple that with the expectation that there was always going to be growth in the number of employees paying into the system.

The problem is that there are now fewer people paying into the system, and that number is expected to continue dropping for the forseeable future. People are also living longer, which means they are collecting more, for a longer period of time.

So, Harry, here's a quick primer on economics... You've got an expanding base of people who will be demanding benefits. This base will be collecting benefits for a greater period of time. And there will be fewer people paying into the system, financing those payments. Oh, and by the way... The "trust fund," that holds all those excess funds that SS has collected over the years? Well, it's full of IOUs that the government has deposited, in order to spend the excess funds.

I guess I'm not suprised that you believe that SS is the most successful program in history.

Mark