Posted on 12/09/2004 2:07:54 PM PST by dandelion
ping
This would be an interesting post, if true.
However there are many more than ONE steel fabricating
plants in America.
We shouldn't forget that we are also facing weapons the Iraqis wouldn't have had if the sanctions against Iraq had been working.
CORRECTION: Dick Durbin, (D, IL) not (D PA). Correct at the original article. How'd that slip in there?
SO is Dick Durbin lying? Not that it's out of question, mind you. Info please, this is a "living" post...
Durbin (as well as the Rock Island arsenal) is from IL, not PA. I'm all for free trade now because with the globalization the last few years, these jobs are gone and there's NOTHING anyone can do about it without devestating the whole economy. With today's tech, as long as there are people in China who will work for 5 cents an hour, American steel and manufacturing is GONE. So support free trade now because protectionism can only make it worse by isolating us and making other countries angry and hostile towards us. Perhaps the steel workers unions that are left should stop asking for more money and thank God they still exist.
Ah - here's the question. Are they American owned? I believe according to the article, we are talking about American owned and operated steel fabricators, not foreign-owned. If I'm not mistaken there is a clause in Defense contracts which states that certain items must be provided by American-owned/operated businesses...
OK. But how many make the specialized light weight molded armor that goes on HUMVEE's?
What was supposed to happen? Guaranteed price supports for steel, so that the rest of the economy gets to subsidize them? A ban on importing steel (which is exactly the same thing)? Direct government subsidies, so that steel plants can continue to operate at a loss?
One industry produces steel. Dozens of industries use steel. Keeping the price of steel artificially high benefits the steelworkers' union, at the expense of the whole rest of the country.
Who let American Steel die? It wasn't Congress, and it wasn't foreign governments. It was the steel industry itself, by assuming that the good times would last forever, and the steelworkers' unions, by demanding the same power no matter what happened.
It isn't a hopeless prospect to manufacture steel in America. Dozens of "minimills" have sprung up in the shadow of the dead steel giants, because they use modern technology and non-union labor. But it is a hopeless prospect to run U.S. Steel or Bethlehem Steel under the assumption that it's going to be 1955 forever.
Thanks. I want to see about what Konaice said too (more than one plant making the armor) also.
" Info please, this is a "living" post..."
---
Is that something like a Living constitution?
http://www.thomasregisterdirectory.com/metal_fabricators/steel_fabrication_0026101_1.html
From now on, please do your own research, especially when
disproving Democrats talking points, - after all, its So Easy and fun to discredit Democrats... ;-)
I live in a steel town near the Rock Island arsenal. The plant went down here went down because union people who worked at the mill couldn't get over that other people in other countries don't require 60 grand with full benefits a year for a job with no education required.
But if the sanctions worked then they could be lifted and that would end the Oil for Food program that is lining the pockets
of the hacks at the U.N. and Saddam himself. If it was ever exposed that Saddam did not have the weapons that kept his people and neighbors in fear of him then he would have gotten two in the hat and that's the end of Oil for Food. The French convinced Saddam that Bush was bluffing. They were wrong.
Has anyone ever seen more use of the personal pronouns, I, me, we and us.
This guy's story isn't about the town hall meeting. Its about Edward Lee Pitts.
This is Dick Durbin's own statement out of the Congressional Record, so if Dick Durbin is lying, I'd like to know. I'm checking your link, but once again - are these companies majority American-owned?
This is largely true, but it doesn't have to be true. The cost of running a steel company could be (dramatically) simplified to the following:
1. Cost of materials, +
2. Cost of labor, +
3. Cost of shipping to the customer.
On factor #1, China and the US are essentially tied. We've got iron ore, and they've got iron ore. On factor #2, China has the US beat hollow. On factor #3, the US has China beat hollow (assuming domestic or nearby consumption).
Solution: diminish the extent to which factor #2 is important by using new processes which aren't labor-intensive. You might end up with a steel foundry which had 45 employees instead of 1,200, but you'd also end up with an American company which could produce steel price-competitively with China.
(The successful American mini-mills are competing on both #1 and #2. They use small amounts of labor, and they generally recycle scrap steel instead of using new ore - a cheaper input. Why don't you ever heard about the mini-mills? Because the steel unions hate them and want to pretend that the rusting hulks of Pennsylvania are the entire steel industry.)
That requirement wasn't in the original statement.
Nor would the guys in Iraq give a ratsass where the armor came from once the bullits start flying.
If they can make it, make them make it, and if they don't want to, Nationalize them and do it at gunpoint.
Most excellent analysis! I guess most of it boils down to getting rid of the bloody labor unions.
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