Posted on 12/08/2004 7:14:33 AM PST by MikefromOhio
Here is what I think, please feel free to respond and please keep it civil...
The Intel reform bill, as a see it, is a bomb in the making. It adds a layer (or two) to the Intel process. Just what we need, more bureacracy!!! This entire bill should have just focused on INTEL REFORM. I know that there are provisions in this bill for USBP agents and that there were more stringent illegal immigration measures in this bill, but I am glad they were taken out.
Why am I glad? Both issues need addressed separately. Both are grave concerns and having an efficient INTEL section is vital. I dont see that with this bill. I see this "reform" more or less pumping up the system on roids so that the new intel director can play politics with whomever his political masters are. Congress didn't get this one right. Let's hope they come back in the new session and start over.
This bill should have NEVER been about immigration. I dont see what the big deal is. I honestly dont know why there is so much whining and moaning about this bill not taking care of the immigration problems. It never should have been intended for that. Since when does Intel reform have anything to do with Illegal immigration? We need to address that issue separately with undivided attention. Same with intel. GETTING IT RIGHT IS BETTER THAN GETTING IT DONE QUICK!! We do not need another 9/11 because some unforeseen hole in this new "reform" bill slipped through.
I just feel both issues need to be addressed separately....
I agree. Regardless of whether it should or shouldn't have included the immigration issues we wanted...it didn't. I'm all about stopping the whining and doing what we can to make sure the issue is addressed seperately, and SOON! What can we do to make sure these issues are dealt with before it is too late? I've taken many attacks on my views on this...but I agree...let's stop whining and do something about. whatever we can.
Stop telling us what to do. What do you think you are an American or something, buddy? Hmmmm? :) He, he, he..
I agree. It's better right than rushed. But you know politics.
one could be used to support the other I suppose, however, we owe it to ourselves to make sure it is done right.
As both are generation defining issues, they need to be addressed seperately....
yeah politics screw up everything......
Unfortunately we wont know that it is too late until it has bitten us in the butt.
So as soon as possible will have to suffice.....
I tend to get nailed on this issue too. There isnt an easy solution, but the immigration is everything crowd fervently believes there is....
and you totally misread what I wrote...
INTEL REFORM and ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION need to be separated. NATIONAL SECURITY is a step higher than both....both contribute IN THEIR OWN WAY.
This was a hot button yesterday. I posted a vanity with the same opinion in the chat area and have gotten very few responses. I would love to see action and less whining. I'm not seeing much motivation on the issue today, where people sure had strong opinions yesterday. People sure like to complain, but why don't they want to do anything about these issues they feel so strong about? Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they just don't know what to do. I feel the same way. I want to do something. What can we do? I know we need to make our voices heard.
Unfortunately we wont know that it is too late until it has bitten us in the butt.
I hope you are wrong on this, and we can get something done "before" it is too late.
The intel bill, flawed or not, was sold as being about national security. National security is a joke without border control. And....... border control/immigration issues legislation would more easily have passed if attached to a seemingly critical bill. I for one, don't believe we can get meaningful immigration/border control legislation in a stand-alone bill.
Here is how I break down the issues...
about 98% or so of the illegal migrants are looking for jobs/food/shelter because they feel that they cannot have that in their own country for whatever reason.
They decide to go to the home of the free and the brave because we are known worldwide about people coming with nothing and making it. Thereby making it our problem.
When their problems disappear, our problems will disappear. Short of killing every Mexican migrant at the border, they will continue to get caught and will continue to try again.
and no I am not saying lets fix their problem. That would mean more wasted money on our part. But something needs to happen and it needs to happen in these banana republics where these people are coming from.
Now when Haji comes across the border to start something, we need a plan for him too. This issue is just bigger than illegal immigrants, its also about people that want to do us harm.
I have to agree with Boortz on this one...Here's what he had to say today (I feel he puts in perspective and it speaks for itself):
First of all .. how many times have you ever heard of a "reform" plan passed by the congress that actually worked? I can think of one. Welfare reform. If you can come up with another example, let me know. Don't suggest tax reform either. There have been thousands of changes in our tax laws since the last so-called "reform."
Be that as it may, to the yawns of America the intelligence bill passed the House yesterday by a margin of 336-75. It should sail through the Senate and be signed by President Bush soon. There was much celebration of its passage by the 9/11 families and others who believe it will make America safer. I doubt seriously that it will. This was a political effort, not a legislative one. The un-elected 9/11 Commission was hastily put together, and much of its time was spent in politically rather than fact-based hearings. As soon as these men and women (remember Jamie Gorelick and Richard Ben-Veniste?) issued their report the Democrats and liberal activist groups started demanding that their findings be codified into law NOW! Immediately! Not later. Not after due deliberation by the elected representatives of the people. But NOW! The left bleated to the media, and the media diligently reported concerns that any failure to pass an intelligence reform law immediately would almost certainly lead to another terrible terrorist attack on the United States.
This exercise, of course, was to show the nation that George Bush and the Republican congress really wasn't all-that-much in charge of things. The left could ramrod legislation through if necessary.
OK ... so what does this hasty legislation do?
Basically it does to intelligence gathering what the Department of Homeland Security did for national defense. It would put the budgets and assets of 15 different agencies under a new position of "National Intelligence Director." But how is simply reshuffling the bureaucracy going to really make this country safer? It probably won't. What has to be changed are the laws, and the enforcement of those laws.
Leading the opposition against the bill was House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner. He wanted a provision put in the bill to deny illegal immigrants driver's licenses and to limit the appeals of those facing deportation. The reason? The 19 hijackers on 9/11 had 60 driver's licenses among them....identification that made it very easy to do what they needed to do to carry out the attacks. So what happened to the provisions in the intelligence bill? They didn't make it. They were cut out during House-Senate negotiations. The reason was simple: Hispandering. (Pandering for the Hispanic vote.) Neither party wants to offend this increasingly powerful group of voter. Even when it comes to protecting Americans from terrorists who may cross the borders. What did I say about a politically inspired bill? And so it goes.
So this legislation will make a lot of people feel good, and will create a new government agency, but past that, not much is new here.
http://boortz.com/nuze/200412/12082004.html#cia
The intel bill, flawed or not, was sold as being about national security. National security is a joke without border control. And....... border control/immigration issues legislation would more easily have passed if attached to a seemingly critical bill. I for one, don't believe we can get meaningful immigration/border control legislation in a stand-alone bill.
I am pretty much with him....
But I just think both of these issues need to be separated, studied and enacted correctly.
Unfortunately our government cannot seem to do 2 things at once and implement both correctly, assuming it isnt country buildling, which this is not.
I agree. This opinion of it being in a seperate bill is not popular, but it makes more sense to me. It would have more power being in its own bill.
sometimes unpopular is right......
sometimes popular is wrong.......
Logically, both issues build to National Security. Both needs need to be addressed separately.
It is the only way to get it right.
And props to you on posting an unpopular opinion. See my post in the chat area. How can we ensure that something is done about the borders?
The Sensenbrenner's, Tancredo's and others can withhold their votes on important legislation in exchange for immigration/border security provisions. Trust me, a stand-alone immigration/border security bill won't have the votes to pass (unless it's watered down and meaningless).
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