[AnalogReigns]

I spent most of last summer in central Germany.

Yes, the individual standard of living is much less than here, but the Europeans I know would say (if you could get them to admit it) that the quality of life was better. Excellent food (real bread, coffee, beer,wine, cheese, etc.), more time off with family, less cars and traffic, more regular exercise (BICYCLES everywhere), lots of parks and free public amenities, (nearly) free higher education--all these things make for a very nice way of life over there.

Yes they are (democratic) socialists, yes their economies are awful...but being there, I understand why there has been so much war for the territory--its a beautiful place.

[reformedliberal]

Excellent food (real bread, coffee, beer,wine, cheese, etc.), more time off with family, less cars and traffic, more regular exercise (BICYCLES everywhere), lots of parks and free public amenities, (nearly) free higher education--all these things make for a very nice way of life over there.

---

Good bakeries are everywhere I have been in the US. If one is unfortunate enough to live far from one, it is still possible...and simple...to bake bread from scratch. I drink real coffee, fresh ground every morning from relatively inexpensive ($7/lb) beans. Occasionally, I will splurge for double that to enjoy my favorite Sumatra Dark. The local supermarket carries beer and wine from all over the world and anyone can purchase whatever one likes. I can't speak for the time off with family, as we are self-employed and work together about half the time. Everyone I am close to is also self-employed in family enterprises. We have income, freedom to set our own schedule and plenty of time together.

Traffic depends on locale. If traffic is a bother, one could always move to a rural area where the problem is likely to be getting stuck behind some farm machinery, although, in the past few years, the traffic in our nearest small town has become more congested and I admit to being irritated by the amount of traffic in cities and on the major Interstates, but that is just a reality in a large country with a productive economy. Bikes are a matter of choice, as well. How many Europeans can own acres of their own land? When you can walk around your own 40 acres or more,canoe or kayak or fish just across the road and bike on side roads through gorgeous, quiet scenery, parks are irrelevant. I have lived in Milwaukee, decades ago, and there were loads of beautiful parks. Today, the parks in LaCrosse, WI are also impressive. While upper-income families may pay through the nose for the elite schools, I know plenty of middle to working class families whose kids receive government grants and scholarships to attend public universities for relatively little cost to themselves.

We usually choose islands for vacation, as cities just don't appeal to us, and usually we are surrounded by Germans, Norwegians and Dutch. They tend to scrimp more than the Americans, and often seem to be on no-frill holidays. OTOH, we have met a few who are also self-employed, gregarious, and altogether enjoyable companions.

A friend is a university professor, renowned in her specialized field. A few years ago, she spent a semester in Norway. She was looking for a pair of shoes and was frustrated because there seemed to only be a few styles available everywhere. She mentioned this to a colleague, who responded:"We don't feel the need to be different. No one needs a lot of choices." She has vowed to not return there, ever, characterizing it as Stalinoid.

Another friend of Spanish descent spent time there a couple of years ago, visiting family. They reported that most people have their official job, which is taxed punitively, and a second job off the books. It was my impression that many people punched into their official job and then went off to earn their untaxed income during the time they were supposed to be working for their taxable income.

The two things visiting Europeans seem to most shocked by in America is the prevalence of firearms and target ranges and the amount of land individuals can own. Once, back in the 90s, some close friends were hosting a group of Europeans from the NIS. They assumed that our shopping area was a Potemkin mall, so they were invited to pick any place at random on the map. After an afternoon driving hither and yon throughout SW WI, SE MN and SE IA, they had to admit that all Americans had access to, to them, extremely varied goods, mostly of high quality.

It wasn't always this way. When I moved here over 30 years ago, I would travel 90 miles every 3 weeks or so to stock up on ethnic and gourmet foods. Today, some of these are available in my local supermarket and I am about 45 minutes from an excellent selection in a mid-sized city.

I have so few complaints about my quality of life that about all I can come up with that I must drive 4 hours to attend quality live cultural events. However, since many of the same artists who exhibit/perform in those urban galleries and concert halls actually live close by, I do not really feel deprived.

Sorry for the extended post, but I remember when everyone I knew was one generation removed from Europe and all the older folks would ever say was:"It is better here."

[to_zion]

I second that. One of the easiest ways to spot an American in Europe = just look for the fat person dressed terribly :P

Seriously though, we have a lot to thank Sweden for considering it's small population:

Seatbelts
Ball bearings
Ship's Propeller
Zipper
Dynamite
Safety match
Turbo engines for cars
Adjustable spanner
Tetra pak
The Hymn - "How Great Thou Art"
Blowtorch
Celsius theomometer
Gas lighthouse
Refrigerator without any moving parts
Pacemaker
Three-phase System (Electricity/AC)
Pipe-wrench
Side Curtain Airbags
Pretensioners
Anti-Whiplash seat

[dfwgator]

Sweden is a small, relatively homogenous country with more or less everyone the same in terms of culture. The US is much bigger and diverse, what works there won't work here, and vice versa.

[AlexW]

"Yes, the individual standard of living is much less than here, but the Europeans I know would say (if you could get them to admit it) that the quality of life was better"

Well, as much as I love my country, USA, I am 60, and ready to live the next number of years in central/east Europe. I need a change in culture and landscape, and I don't need 2 cars and all the perks of the Joneses.
As of this past Tuesday, I am visiting in Budapest.
The central and eastern areas have a lot to gain, and living here is not so hectic as in the US.
I just walked across the street and bought a good bottle of red wine for about $3 US !
Where I live in the US, I have to drive 20 miles to pay $12
for a jug of Carlo Rossi, haha.