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To: Stoat

They're all the same. "We have no poor people in XYZ", "The social conditions are soooo bad in the US", "33 million under poverty line, 35 million uninsured" These are the things you hear. You hear them over and over and over in their state run media.

However, the standard of living in MOST of Europe is noticeably LOWER than MOST of the US. Comparisons are hard to conduct though. What really defines standard of living? Per capita purchasing power after tax? Security provided by the state? Crime? Average life expectancy? What about environment, or even social norms? Individual freedoms? It’s hard to put your finger on it.

It’s arrogant to a European of course if you say the US is good at anything. But the bottom line is that we have to give out green cards by lottery because we have so many more applicants than cards available. You see few Americans emigrating to Europe as a whole. Movement is one way. Per capita incomes are higher but the tax load is significantly lower in the US which makes for the American to have a per capita disposable income WAY higher compared to most Europeans. Personal choice is much greater since people are not forced into a socialized process/system in education, health care, retirement etc.

Having personally seen both systems. Having lived in both places and many years ago working for a short time in Germany under German conditions I personally can not consciously say that I’d prefer their system. You live in a box. A small state owned and controlled box. It’s like Soyent Green or TI1138, only since they have been treated like cattle from childhood and only know this super structured life they don’t feel in a stray jacket living there. In fact many of them can’t understand how the US can succeed as a such decentralized and disorganized ( their perception) nation. They feel insecure in the US because you are responsible for yourself. Something that they are not use to. From birth until death, the state provides in most of Europe.

The danger is that MOST of the people we have coming to America today want the JOBS and the MONEY but still believe in socialism. They don’t like it as much where they’re from but want to make the US more like that place. Makes sense, right? The original immigrants we had were people who wanted less state, less rules. They saw the paradox in BIG state and long term freedom. Today, many Americans do not share the view of the founding fathers and that of the original immigrants to our nation. Culture makes wealth, not wealth culture. I hope the European socialist thought does not rub off on us.

Red6


143 posted on 01/15/2005 12:54:16 PM PST by Red6
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To: Red6
The danger is that MOST of the people we have coming to America today want the JOBS and the MONEY but still believe in socialism. They don’t like it as much where they’re from but want to make the US more like that place. Makes sense, right? The original immigrants we had were people who wanted less state, less rules. They saw the paradox in BIG state and long term freedom. Today, many Americans do not share the view of the founding fathers and that of the original immigrants to our nation. Culture makes wealth, not wealth culture. I hope the European socialist thought does not rub off on us.

Your statement above is so true. We know a number Swedes who work in the States and they don't want to go back to Sweden to work - but they say the U.S. would be a much better country if it had better social programs. Yet, many of the Swedes will tell you that their system is bankrupt - and they will not be able to sustain it.

165 posted on 01/18/2005 12:49:17 PM PST by RAY (They that do right are all heroes!)
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