Posted on 12/08/2004 4:18:33 AM PST by Stoat
Man, this is an old thread! Some of the more objective Swedes have also reported to me the above. However, the same ones think we are not socialistic enough!
Man, this is an old thread!
They're all the same. "We have no poor people in XYZ", "The social conditions are soooo bad in the US", "33 million under poverty line, 35 million uninsured" These are the things you hear. You hear them over and over and over in their state run media.
However, the standard of living in MOST of Europe is noticeably LOWER than MOST of the US. Comparisons are hard to conduct though. What really defines standard of living? Per capita purchasing power after tax? Security provided by the state? Crime? Average life expectancy? What about environment, or even social norms? Individual freedoms? It’s hard to put your finger on it.
It’s arrogant to a European of course if you say the US is good at anything. But the bottom line is that we have to give out green cards by lottery because we have so many more applicants than cards available. You see few Americans emigrating to Europe as a whole. Movement is one way. Per capita incomes are higher but the tax load is significantly lower in the US which makes for the American to have a per capita disposable income WAY higher compared to most Europeans. Personal choice is much greater since people are not forced into a socialized process/system in education, health care, retirement etc.
Having personally seen both systems. Having lived in both places and many years ago working for a short time in Germany under German conditions I personally can not consciously say that I’d prefer their system. You live in a box. A small state owned and controlled box. It’s like Soyent Green or TI1138, only since they have been treated like cattle from childhood and only know this super structured life they don’t feel in a stray jacket living there. In fact many of them can’t understand how the US can succeed as a such decentralized and disorganized ( their perception) nation. They feel insecure in the US because you are responsible for yourself. Something that they are not use to. From birth until death, the state provides in most of Europe.
The danger is that MOST of the people we have coming to America today want the JOBS and the MONEY but still believe in socialism. They don’t like it as much where they’re from but want to make the US more like that place. Makes sense, right? The original immigrants we had were people who wanted less state, less rules. They saw the paradox in BIG state and long term freedom. Today, many Americans do not share the view of the founding fathers and that of the original immigrants to our nation. Culture makes wealth, not wealth culture. I hope the European socialist thought does not rub off on us.
Red6
I don't know that KY is particularly poor these days.
well okay it lives a lot of people in Florida so if you go the right places you find what you want. It is not comparable to my hometown that has around 45000. You must look at per cent.
Agree with you. You see the complexity. Very good post.
have you ever been to the US?
I have been many places in the US. Lived there for 4 years. I have been to many peoples homes and traveled around.
I have seen good things and bad things. Seen wealthy areas and poor areas. The core problem in this discussion is that most upper middle class people live in separated places from the poor areas and thats why they think everything is perfect in the US. They shut their eyes. But agree upper middle class people live very good
Like I said before, I have lived in Europe for a total of 34 years, still go there 4 times per year.
I am now retired, I live very well in the US, couldn't live that well anywhere in Europe.
That's from experience, living and working in both places my entire life.
As a good Christian as me. How do you think heaven is going to look. Will there be some people living in palaces and some people living in slums. Do you think Jesus wanted some people to be very rich and some poor. My point is no system is perfect, but socialism is not right either compare to what the bible preaches.
I am an agnostic, meaning that there has to be a supreme being to create the Universe , it didn't just happen.
I don't accept each religion's focus on their individual belief. ( An old bearded man, a prophet who must be obeyed, etc.
Religion is in our own hearts and minds and very private.
Well I am religous and trying my best to not look down on anybody. Not warship anybody, but God. Seems like to many people warship the people that are billionars. Its a side track from Christianity. Its like the Jews that started to warship the Golden calf in the middle of the desert when they fleed from the pharao. In the end wealth in this life will not matter. When we are all equal in Heaven
with the exception of those who go the other way?
are you a mormon.
Wealth should be measured in the economic price of freedom and the price of the best things in life:
Freedom
Manly men
Beautiful, chaste, and submissive Women
An abundance of cheap prime real estate (low population density and a hospitable climate)
Financial Security and Safety
Plenty of healthy and affordable food
Health
A low degree of paperwork.
The rest is worthless.
I agree.
No, a Christian. Here's one of the many passages showing that heaven isn't equal for everyone.
1 Corinthians 3:10-15
By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
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