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To: naturalman1975

There is a whole bunch of child sex slaves...Christian children in the Sudan...raped and tortured and murdered for not denying their Christian faith and swearing oaths to Islam
that might disagree with you....


3 posted on 12/07/2004 7:34:31 PM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: joesnuffy
Remarks by Justin Martyr to the Roman senate

CHRISTIANS CHARGED WITH ATHEISM.

Why, then, should this be? In our case, who pledge ourselves to do no wickedness, nor to hold these atheistic opinions, you do not examine the charges made against us; but, yielding to unreasoning passion, and to the instigation of evil demons, you punish us without consideration or judgment. For the truth shall be spoken; since of old these evil demons, effecting apparitions of themselves, both defiled women and corrupted boys, and showed such fearful sights to men, that those who did not use their reason in judging of the actions that were done, were struck with terror; and being carried away by fear, and not knowing that these were demons, they called them gods, and gave to each the name which each of the demons chose for himself. (1) And when Socrates endeavoured, by true reason and examination, to bring these things to light, and deliver men from the demons, then the demons themselves, by means of men who rejoiced in iniquity, compassed his death, as an atheist and a profane person, on the charge that "he was introducing new divinities;" and in our case they display a similar activity. For not only among the Greeks did reason (Logos) prevail to condemn these things through Socrates, but also among the Barbarians were they condemned by Reason (or the Word, the Logos) Himself, who took shape, and became man, and was called Jesus Christ; and in obedience to Him, we not only deny that they who did such things as these are gods, (2) but assert that they are wicked and impious demons, (2) whose actions will not bear comparison with those even of men desirous of virtue.

CHAP. VI.--CHARGE OF ATHEISM REFUTED.

Hence are we called atheists. And we confess that we are atheists, so far as gods of this sort are concerned, but not with respect to the most true God, the Father of righteousness and temperance and the other virtues, who is free from all impurity. But both Him, and the Son (who came forth from Him and taught us these things, and the host of the other good angels who follow and are made like to Him), (3) and the prophetic Spirit, we worship and adore, knowing them in reason and truth, and declaring without grudging to every one who wishes to learn, as we have been taught.

50 posted on 12/07/2004 10:50:41 PM PST by Rocketman
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To: joesnuffy

Something I ran across

Adventure in Asmara
A Report on the Sudanese Resistance
Michael Novak
http://www.nationalreview.com/novak/novak091902.asp

I have just enjoyed one of the best short experiences of my life. I have just returned from a trip to Asmara, Eritrea, where in four days I gave six lectures on religious liberty to the leaders of the Sudanese Resistance. These are the leaders of the growing rebellion against the Talibanish regime in Khartoum. These leaders, some 40 of them representing many diverse and widely scattered groups, have few enough occasions to get together (Sudan is a country three times larger than Texas, with few roads or other means of easy transport). Besides, now they are in negotiations, temporarily interrupted, with the Khartoum government, concerning a peace settlement that might keep the whole country together, if at all possible. Most Sudanese really want that, they say. The Resistance pretty much controls the south, with salients (or at least pockets within them) reaching up on the east to the Red Sea and on the west almost to the Egyptian border. They are beginning to outline their future nation.

(snip)

About half the leaders of the resistance groups represented seem to be Arabic speakers and about half English speakers. A majority represents various Sudanese African tribes, and either Christianity or native religions of nature, but a large minority, represents Muslim rebels from different geographical regions, races and social classes. The Muslims are outspoken and emphatic in their disdain for the abuses of the good name of Islam perpetrated by the government in Khartoum. "Our problem is not religion," one after another insists, "but a politicalization of religion, an abuse of religion. They are not true Muslims!"

"But how do you argue," another says, a former professor who came home from a Western country to become a brigadier in the field, "when they quote a text from the Koran on amputation according to sharia law, and ask if you believe in that text? We accept the Koran. We are Muslims. But we do not accept an eleventh-century interpretation of Islam. We are twenty-first century people. We are Muslims, in a country with eleven different major tendencies among Muslims, and we are accustomed to tolerance of one another."

(snip)

One of the ideological architects of political Islam in Sudan is a man named Turabi, who quite frankly admitted that his teaching was modeled on a careful study of Stalin and the Fascists of the early 20th century. Any and every means possible should be used, he learned, in the effort to organize cadres to build up a utopian, perfect, totalistic regime.

In other words, so-called "radical Islam" or "Islamic fundamentalism" of the new political type is in fact a bastard modernization of authentic Islam, corrupting Islam by the worst of all modern impulses. As one of our professor-guerrillas put it, If they were going to modernize Islam, why didn't they choose the best features of modernity to bring into Islam, like the Universal Declaration, and democracy, and human rights? Why the worst features — Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler? He expressed the last sentence with exquisite disdain, to vigorous agreement from others.....



104 posted on 12/08/2004 8:13:40 AM PST by Valin (Out Of My Mind; Back In Five Minutes)
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