Posted on 12/07/2004 7:28:32 PM PST by naturalman1975
IT was one of those extremely rare moments when I found myself agreeing with John Howard. Asked what he thought of Sydney Lord Mayor Clover Moore's reported plans to make Sydney's Christmas celebrations low-key and generic, the Prime Minister slammed them as "silly", "ridiculous" and "political correctness from central casting".
Out of sensitivity for a multicultural society, Moore was reported to have said she did not want the celebrations "to push any one religious belief".
In fact, Moore had said nothing of the sort. Quite the contrary: the council is increasing its Christmas celebration spending this year by 50per cent. The words were spoken by Jeff Fisher, chief executive of fast-food chain Oporto following news that the chain had banned a nativity display from its franchise in Hornsby in northern Sydney. Media had put the words in the wrong mouth, but Howard's assessment of them remained true.
Every Christmas it seems we go through this farce. Last year, Stonnington Council in Melbourne removed the word Christmas from its celebrations and prevented speakers at a carols night from quoting the Bible. Some kindergartens and daycare centres have stopped having Christmas parties, instead having end-of-year or fairy parties.
All this, it seems, is being done to include Australia's religious and cultural minorities. This is supposed to foster social harmony and tolerance.
But it doesn't. It does exactly the opposite. When Channel Seven's Sunrise recently ran an interactive segment on the issue, a common theme in the responses of viewers legitimately aggrieved by this emasculation of Christmas was anger towards minority groups -- especially Muslims -- who were cast as cultural warriors against the majority.
Muslims may not celebrate Christmas but it is ridiculous to suspect they are behind this absurd trend. Jesus is a revered, prophetic figure in Islam and, accordingly, we are the least likely to be offended by other religious groups celebrating his birth. An anti-Christmas campaign is more consistent with aggressive atheism than any Islamic imperative.
In fact, I know no member of any religious minority, Muslim or otherwise, who asked for or even wants this. In my experience, religious minorities are far more concerned that their right to religious expression is respected and protected. That, surely, is a right belonging no less to the majority than to minorities.
Driving Christmas underground only erodes this treasured Australian norm and that is far more troubling to me than any Christmas celebration. I find the idea of restraining religious expression substantially more offensive than I find any nativity display. The impoverishment of Christmas is done more on behalf of religious minorities than by them.
This is where political correctness loses the plot; what purports to inspire tolerance instead inspires hostility and intolerance. Diverse, vibrant and tolerant societies are created by allowing eclectic cultural and religious expressions, celebrations included, to flourish. You don't achieve that by surrendering a culture, replacing it with bland meaninglessness.
Denying the Christianity in Christmas or, worse, doing away with it altogether helps no one. This is not multiculturalism. It is anti-culturalism.
Waleed Aly, a Melbourne lawyer, is a member of the Islamic Council of Victoria executive.
Yeah, well he only said that cuz he's the President and he's not allowed to say what he really thinks, dontcha know?
>>Atheists, not Muslims, are anti-Christmas
Of course. Muslims want us to congregate in traditional (predictable) Christmas areas so their backpack bombs will be more effective. "Atheists" want us to stay home and forget Christmas.
"I tend to agree. There are a lot of newbies around lately who seem to be trying to live up to the liberal stereotypes of conservatives."
It's not good. FR got some great publicity leading up to the elections. When lurkers read these kinds of remarks, they go away and tell others.
FR doesn't need that kind of publicity. These bigoted remarks really need to stop.
As I suspected all along!
Good thing there's no such thing as PC here.
Could you try and not be quite so stupid.
Thank you.
btw - You might really enjoy post #188. I thought it was right-on.
>> Could you try and not be quite so stupid.
I will, but only if you can explain how my statement was stupid. Can you? I doubt it.
It's terrible to lump atheists in with the wackos who live by this garbage:
"Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191)
"Ye are the best of peoples evolved for mankind." (Koran 3:110)
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and genitals cut off, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)
"Not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" (Koran 5:51)
"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)
"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)
"If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them [infidels]" (Koran 8:65).
Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (Koran 9:3)
"Fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Koran 9:5)
Our God tells us to "fight the unbelievers" and "He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them" (Koran 9:14).
"Until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Koran 9:29)
"Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (9:39).
"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)
"Murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123)
"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:40)
"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)
"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)
"strike off the heads of the disbelievers" (Koran 47:4)
"Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (Koran 69:30-37)
He can't. He's just trying to shut you up. Don't let him. You are right.
Muslims want us to congregate in traditional (predictable) Christmas areas so their backpack bombs will be more effective.
The Muslims do?
How about Mansour Al-Nogaidan or...say Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani? Do they?
Hear, hear! (ROFL)
LOL!
>> The Muslims do? How about Mansour Al-Nogaidan or...say Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani? Do they?
"Grand Ayatollah" Ali Sistani is an Iranian-born anti-Semitic and anti-American who opposed keeping American troops in Iraq after sovereignty was handed over to the Iraqis on June 30. Only a fool would trust Sistani with his/her life.
Mansour Al-Nogaidan is not a Muslim. He claims to be a Muslim, but he does not follow the Koran. If he followed the Koran he would be targeting me (and other Americans) with his explosive-laden backpack.
You're not seeing the same world that I am. The anti-Christmas crusade is led by the ACLU. Either a majority or a plurality of its members are Jewish. I know of no Muslims who are prominent members or leaders of the ACLU. If you do, please name them. But I know of lots of Jewish people who are prominent in the ACLU - and they're leading the anti-Christmas jihad.
If he followed the Koran he would be targeting me (and other Americans) with his explosive-laden backpack.
Riiiight.
It's very un-PC to say it, but the anti-Christmas crusade in America isn't led by Muslims, it's led by Jewish lawyers in the ACLU, or Jewish plaintiffs represented by the ACLU in their anti-Christmas lawsuits. Read the news reports.
Look in the mirror. You seem to want to destroy the freedom of religion we have in the United States.
There are fanatic Christians today... the people who have bombed abortion clinics and shot doctors who perform abortions, for instance, are religious terrorists are they not? What about Fred Phelps?
Yes. There are a very very few violent Christians DESPITE Christianity, just as there are a few non-violent Muslims DESPITE Islam.
So what? Are you, once again, presenting Christianity as the biggest threat to America and Islam as its savior?
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