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ACLU files suit against Proposition 69
Contra Costa Times ^ | 12/7/4 | Nathaniel Hoffman

Posted on 12/07/2004 12:57:18 PM PST by SmithL

SAN FRANCISCO - The ACLU in California filed a federal class-action lawsuit Tuesday to halt some DNA testing required by Proposition 69, approved by voters in November.

The initiative requires law enforcement agencies to collect DNA from a wide range of people, including those arrested but never convicted of a crime.

"California has the most draconian DNA date base system in the country because of Proposition 69," said ACLU attorney Julia Harumi Mass.

Named in the suit are state Attorney General Bill Lockyer, several county sheriffs, including Warren Rupf in Contra Costa and Charles Plummer in Alameda County.

The ACLU challenge is based on three constitution arguments. The suit argues that Prop. 69 violates Fourth Amendment controls on search and seizure, is a violation of privacy rights and violates due process.

Plaintiffs include people arrested but never charged, people who served time and are free from the criminal justice system, and a man who is a victim of identify theft and has been repeatedly arrested for other people's crimes.

The suit asks for an injunction against the implementation of Prop. 69.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: aclu; criminal; dna; lawsuit; privacy; prop69
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To: bigLusr
Assuming I can't actually run tests myself then I've got the choice of paying some commercial lab $30,000 to run DNA tests, or I pay some cop $3,000 and fellow tax payers pick up the tab.

$3,000 will buy you a whole lot of DNA testing and screening, so your scenario doesn't carry much weight in the cost-benefit analysis of the crimes that would be solved and prevented by sampling prisoners and arrestees.

41 posted on 12/07/2004 2:06:00 PM PST by Fatalis
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
Yes, initially...but to my cynical thinking it is only opening up a door.

Yes, and in the room beyond the door are prisoners and arrestees.

Thinking the best of you, it would take another law entirely to open the door to the room where you might be sitting. I'd join you in keeping that door closed, but that's not what's happening with Proposition 69.

42 posted on 12/07/2004 2:09:13 PM PST by Fatalis
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To: .38sw
"I don't think it's a very good idea to take DNA from people who are merely arrested."

If you are arrested but never charged, do they fingerprint you?

I tend to agree, taking DNA samples from someone who is arrested but never charged is not a good idea.

43 posted on 12/07/2004 2:10:23 PM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: .38sw
I agree with you. There is a huge difference between fingerprints and DNA, to the point that I consider a false analogy to compare one with the other.

The potential for mischief is too great.

44 posted on 12/07/2004 2:12:24 PM PST by george wythe
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To: .38sw
...I don't have anything to hide, but I don't let law enforcement into my home just to look around, nor do I hand over my banking information to them, etc.

No, but if you're arrested you will have a mug shot taken and be fingerprinted. It's been that way for decades. I don't see DNA samples as being any more intrusive than a finger print, personally.

45 posted on 12/07/2004 2:12:48 PM PST by TChris (You keep using that word. I don't think it means what yHello, I'm a TAGLINE vir)
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To: bigLusr
"or I pay some cop $3,000"

You'd only be paying the cop to obtain the DNA. You'd still have to pay a geneticist to run the appropriate genetic tests.

46 posted on 12/07/2004 2:16:13 PM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: mysterio

Without fingerprinting, how do you get a conviction?


47 posted on 12/07/2004 2:16:56 PM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Legislatures are so outdated. If you want real political victory, take your issue to court.)
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To: .38sw

It's all a "tag and release" policy. Here in Texas they required a finger print from EACH HAND to get a driver's license.

Are they THAT afraid that I will lose a hand and be unable to "prove" who I am?


48 posted on 12/07/2004 2:23:05 PM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: TChris

DNA samples on file (for people never charged) makes them a suspect before the fact.

Unsolved cases are just the type to run against a population pool to "try to find a match".


49 posted on 12/07/2004 2:24:43 PM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: weegee
DNA samples on file (for people never charged) makes them a suspect before the fact.

No more than the FBI fingerprint file does. The draconian police state hasn't crushed the country because of that policy, now has it?

50 posted on 12/07/2004 2:28:04 PM PST by TChris (You keep using that word. I don't think it means what yHello, I'm a TAGLINE vir)
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To: Prime Choice

Let's just cut to the quick and fingerprint, retinal scan, and get a DNA swab of EVERYONE when they are born or apply for marriage licenses, immigration, etc. < /sarcasm >


51 posted on 12/07/2004 2:30:24 PM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: TChris
No more than the FBI fingerprint file does. The draconian police state hasn't crushed the country because of that policy, now has it?

Keep your head down. Choppers...

52 posted on 12/07/2004 2:31:21 PM PST by Fatalis
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To: .38sw

I voted against it also, for the very reasons you state. If someone is idicted for a crime they can already get their DNA from them with a court order, just as they can get a search warrent. I do not think you should have to submit to DNA testing if you are simply arrested and then later released. Enough with the government in our lives already.


53 posted on 12/07/2004 2:32:07 PM PST by calex59
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To: Fatalis

What is it about the aclu and laws? cant they get it thru their thick skulls these are LAWS!!! they'll try and overturn ANYTHING that isnt leftist or socialistic.


54 posted on 12/07/2004 2:34:22 PM PST by Jazzman1
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To: weegee
Reducto ad absurdum.

Let me know when you have something useful to contribute to the discussion.

55 posted on 12/07/2004 2:34:40 PM PST by Prime Choice (I like Democrats, too. Let's exchange recipes.)
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To: Prime Choice

I oppose keeping the fingerprints of people who have been determined to be "innocent" whether the prosecutor is unable to convince the jury of guilt or the district attorney drops the charge altogether.

Keeping the fingerprints says "we may not have proven you were guilty but we still find you to be suspicious of other crimes, we may need these later..."

Why can't the information be held until the case is proven?

We don't want the government to keep data from the "background check" for firearm purchases.


56 posted on 12/07/2004 2:35:23 PM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: Prime Choice

Why is it absurd? Birth certificates are misused all the time.

Or are you afraid to give YOUR biometric signatures to the government?


57 posted on 12/07/2004 2:36:46 PM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: wireman

You said: I'm 100% with the ACLU on this.

I'll take the other side. I don't get how this violates any constitutionally protected interest. I would perhaps consider a restriction on the use of the DNA for any use other than identification/exclusion. I am not sure what privacy interest is then harmed by getting DNA samples, by a simple swab of the mouth. That is not really intrusive, and tells the government nothing personal about you, such as legal, but perhaps unpopular activities you undertake, which is, as I understand it, the real interest to be protected under constitutional analysis.


58 posted on 12/07/2004 2:38:26 PM PST by NCLaw441
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To: weegee
Birth certificates are misused all the time.

By whom and in what way? Be precise.

59 posted on 12/07/2004 2:40:13 PM PST by Prime Choice (I like Democrats, too. Let's exchange recipes.)
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To: Fatalis
My understanding: state convicts currently surrender DNA, so

What's the point of prop 69, given:about 6% of the population commits 80% of the crimes & we've already got their DNA

( ) A new bureaucracy for law enforcement w/ attendant funding & union membership
( ) A new source of power/control over the "subjects"
( ) other

It's gonna be as effective as ballistic fingerprinting in solving crime

60 posted on 12/07/2004 2:41:33 PM PST by TheOracleAtLilac
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