Rocking For Christ

cbs ^ | 12-7-04

[LouAvul]

The growing clout of America's 100-million evangelical Christians is being heard loud and clear. Just turn on your radio, and you'll notice that a seismic shift in American culture is taking place.

Before, you could tune into different stations, which offered different music and different messages.

But now, as Correspondent Bob Simon reports on 60 Minutes Wednesday, Dec. 8, at 8 p.m. ET/PT,, evangelical Christian music is flowing into mainstream media -- and changing it. In fact, Christian entertainment now brings in $4 billion a year.

Rappers and rockers are making hits and making money while spreading the gospel to national audiences. Christian groups can be heard on secular radio and seen on "The Tonight Show." Earlier this year, the group Third Day even played at the Republican National Convention.

"The fact that there are Christian themes now emerging in rock and that Christians are in rock is just representative of a spiritual desire or a spiritual hunger in our culture," says Cameron Strang, publisher of Relevant Magazine, a religious publication.

[Texas2step]

Chad says he has a new heavy metal song called "Jesus is f****king cool!"

Uh, dude, it's called cynicism. If you really believe Chad has a song with that title, then it's no wonder you cannot understand the viewpoint of others on this board.

Do I agree that it was appropriate? Probably not. But then again, I'm not Chad, and I'll not judge him for it. In total, I certainly agree with Chad's viewpoint on this subject more than I agree with yours, and I don't believe I'm alone on this.

The rest of us are out the door while you folks tune up and rock on!

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. ;-)

[Texas2step]

I was asked to give an example of watered down and I gave one of a song IMO was watered down.

I realize that, but didn't want "the other side" of this discussion to use that to say that DC Talk is a band that "waters down" their message. They don't. I'm not sure I agree the lyrics you posted were "watered down". Not every song a group sings is going to be like "Jesus Freak". They're all going to have slightly different focuses (is that a word?).

[reaganaut]

I agree. The point I orignally made was that "watered down" songs are not the best for use in evangelism. Not nec. directed at you, but I am tired of being put in the same box as those who hate all CCM. I don't.

[Texas2step]

I am tired of being put in the same box as those who hate all CCM. I don't.

And, I didn't intend on putting you in that box. If I gave that impression, I apologize. I was just trying to point out the fact that bands that have songs that some people considered to be "watered down" also have songs that boldly preach Jesus Christ.

Jesus Freak is one of the first Christian songs that my pre-teen daughters got excited about. It's helped show them that we are strangers, and that's OK. Being a "Jesus Freak" is who we should be.

It's also a song that while "bold" has also had some crossover appeal. It's hip. It's cool. Whatever "with it" term you want to use, and I've heard it in more than one "secular" setting.

I would think (and I think you'd agree) that's a good thing.

[reaganaut]

Agreed.

[LearnsFromMistakes]

I just don't understand this attitude. My church is not the best architectural example in my city, but it is where my family meets to worship our God. That makes it one of the best buildings in the world.

I think the same of christian music. Doesn't matter if it is the 'best' or not, it is what we have. But I think it is the best. Maybe not because it is fantastic, but I have heard the version that is created by the non-christian community, and there is nothing there for me.

[banjo joe]

I don't think loud is bad.

I've played at several "Jam for the Lamb" events and have a T-shirt from one with "Play skillfully... with a loud noise" on the front. I wear it proudly.

"Do you find these to be consistant with the spirit and message of Christianity?"

Yes. Jesus was a rabble-rouser and muck-raker in many ways... in addition to everything else He was.

I'm with you, sister. Some folks just want to 'do' chuch, and make the buffet by 12:15. Don't let God hold 'em up, don't let the service drag on 'till nearly 1 p.m., as they often do at my church.

[PleaseNoMore]

It is ALLLLLLLLL that he had on. He wasn't wearing a breastplate or anything else for that matter. He was wearing an ephod ONLY. Yes, he would have exposed himself. Not intentionally but exposed nonetheless. His wife is recorded as saying as much. She was disgusted by it accusing him of showing himself to the slave girls.

The ephod was either at the waist or just below it. THINK about it. Matthew Henry's commentary says that he laid aside his robes. It says he put on a dress. Well, 'ol Henry wasn't being scriptural there now was he? He was wearing an ephod. Ephods aren't long like dresses. They aren't stand alone garments. They are to be worn over the priestly robe.

[PigRigger]

Honestly, do you understand what you are saying. Do you honestly believe God cares about whether one is naked when they approach worshiping God?

Christ made it very clear, he said "Come unto Me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; I am meek and lowly in heart and ye shall find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy, and My burden is light".

Christ had no use for man-made interpretations of God's law; because no man could ever achieve satisfaction in God's eyes when attempting to follow them. We are separated from God by sin, no deeds, no words, and no man can ever overcome that gulf.

Christ, in his words and actions, made a new covenant with his children. He threw out the old laws, and gave us a new path to Salvation through Him.

What justifies one's salvation is faith in the death and resurrection in Christ, and God's forgiving Grace.

Whether one sings in church accompanied by music, whether one is naked (we are all naked in God's eyes), whether one has long hair, whether one kneels when praying is not important when compared to whether one has faith in Christs salvation.

Do you honestly believe Salvation will NOT be granted based upon how one worships? Do you honestly believe a loving and forgiving God, who sacrificed his own Son, would restrict Salvation based upon musical notes accompanying words of praise and worship?

We are saved by our faith in Christ and God's ever forgiving grace.

Look to Christ's own words if you wish follow any commands. He orders us to love one another as He loves us. We are to be forgiving, humble, and servants to each other. It is clear from Christ's own teachings, it is not important how one's comes to Christ, just so long as it is voluntary and justified through faith.

[Zechariah11]

Do you honestly believe a loving and forgiving God, who sacrificed his own Son, would restrict Salvation based upon musical notes accompanying words of praise and worship?

Uhh...uh . . . uh. . . uh . . .no(?) How many points, Alex?

[PigRigger]

Uhh...uh . . . uh. . . uh . . .no(?)

Than why, through your many posts, have you outlined that there are right and wrong ways to worship God?

This issue with whether one is naked when they approach worship. It is meaningless when compared to what the soul believes. Our faith in Christ is what is important.

I could care less if a Church was formed that allows members to pray in the nude if they felt that it helped them connect with the true meaning of Christ's salvation. It may not be my cup of tea, but who am I to tell them what God wants them to do when Christ has already told us.

We can never justify our salvation through the following of rules and laws or upon how we worship. Salvation is only justified through faith in Christ and the Grace of God. All other things, other than helping us focus on God, are far less important and open to man's interpretation.

[Zechariah11]

More of the obvious! Spare me the salvation message, brother Pig.

I am not going to try and catch you up to speed on a very long and now tiresome thread involving reverence in worship. The matter involving II Sam 6 was not ever about David's salvation.(!!!)

Now, if you don't mind I will try to yield the ground and leave the premises to you hip rockers (and not let the screen door hit me on the ass on the way out.)

[PigRigger]

Very thoughtful response. Worshiping God, no matter how much you would like to believe, is open to interpretation. Christ has made clear what is not.

I have read all of this thread, I have seen your comments. Your disposition on how one should approach worship is very clear; it should be God centered and with reverence. I agree.

However, even with that being said, I don't agree their is a definitive right way or wrong way. Because, in the end, it is meaningless if one does not have faith in Christs Salvation and forgiveness.

I do know for a fact, how one worships will do nothing in gaining salvation, only faith in Christ will. You may believe it does, you may not. To me, that is not important. My way of worship is meaningless if I do not admit I cannot overcome sin (and manifestations of it) without embracing Christ's Salvation.

Go ahead and continue to espouse and critique about how one should or should not worship. In the end, it is not important.

You may one day come to understand that. You may be surprised, when you come to be with Christ, the number of persons God has granted his forgiveness to. If one errs in the choices they make in life (such as how one approaches worship), it is easily forgiven, and in the end, not important.

[Clint N. Suhks]

Doesn't matter if it is the 'best' or not,

You misunderstand,I love the Word, I love the intention and I admire the tribute.

But, to me...musically it ranks below elevator music, gangsta rap and polka.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Uh, dude, it's called cynicism. If you really believe Chad has a song with that title, then it's no wonder you cannot understand the viewpoint of others on this board.

I was, of course, kidding about that. I can be irreverent, at times, when my buttons are pushed, and if one thing pushes my buttons, it's gotta be the type of people who try to set parameters on how I praise the Lord - whether it's by the kinds of clothes I wear, which they judge to be "too casual" or the type of music that I write, which they judge to be "Demon Backbeat" or the type of people who say I genuflect on the wrong knee or whatever.

As a Baptist, I can honestly say that there is no man alive who ever can, or ever will, define the parameters by which I worship - If I wanted a man to act as my intermediary with God, I'd be Catholic ;0)

[Chad Fairbanks]

You misunderstand,I love the Word, I love the intention and I admire the tribute.

But, to me...musically it ranks below elevator music, gangsta rap and polka

Even though we disagree on musical tastes, apparently, I like your attitude about the issue.

[Clint N. Suhks]

Chad, I'm for anything that would bring prayer back to school, faith in God or change in the moral fiber of this country.

If my three year-old banging on her playschool piano brought people together spiritually, I'm all for it. I'm just not sure how long I could listen to it...

[Chad Fairbanks]

Agreed. I grew up listening to old hymns, psalms and other stuff like that in church - and as part of the choir, I often went outside of church and performed at senior centers and the like - especially during the holidays.

However, as a metal fan (although in recent years, I've mellowed a bit) I also performed christian metal.

I guess it all depends on the target audience. People who don't like rock or metal probably wouldn't go to a rock or metal show. But others would, and if it saves even one person, it's worth it IMHO... ;0)

[Clint N. Suhks]

I also performed christian metal.

"Christian metal"? Yuck! Talk about an oxymoron. You being a Baptist should know Brother Cloud's view on tavern music. I love rock and roll but I also associate is with rebellion, anarchy and being less than sacred of Christianity. (R&R has a place where I categorize it separate from my faith), I also enjoy watching the Soprano's, ultimate fighting, Desperate Housewives and other adult shows but if I were to mix popular culture with my faith it would come out something like "Desperate Housewives for Christ"...wouldn't that make your stomach turn?

Not to mention, every "Christian" rock song I've ever heard sounded lame...nothing remotely close to riffs and crashes you find in songs from the Stones, Zeppelin or the Beatles.

Give me the old timey bluegrass Baptist hymns, traditional Christmas carols and the fourth verse of My Country Tis of Thee that keeps Christianity sacred, not faux rebellious music pretending to spread the Word. No offence.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Well, in case no one told you - Christianity IS rebellion nowadays ;0)