Rocking For Christ

cbs ^ | 12-7-04

[LouAvul]

The growing clout of America's 100-million evangelical Christians is being heard loud and clear. Just turn on your radio, and you'll notice that a seismic shift in American culture is taking place.

Before, you could tune into different stations, which offered different music and different messages.

But now, as Correspondent Bob Simon reports on 60 Minutes Wednesday, Dec. 8, at 8 p.m. ET/PT,, evangelical Christian music is flowing into mainstream media -- and changing it. In fact, Christian entertainment now brings in $4 billion a year.

Rappers and rockers are making hits and making money while spreading the gospel to national audiences. Christian groups can be heard on secular radio and seen on "The Tonight Show." Earlier this year, the group Third Day even played at the Republican National Convention.

"The fact that there are Christian themes now emerging in rock and that Christians are in rock is just representative of a spiritual desire or a spiritual hunger in our culture," says Cameron Strang, publisher of Relevant Magazine, a religious publication.

[PleaseNoMore]

I am particularly fond of Pillar's "Frontline". Awesome song. I will check out Jonah33.

[RobRoy]

Wow, where to begin...

>>Your cut and paste job of a definition did not address rw's major point about propriety in worship. (It looks impressive though!)<<

Thanks, btw, it is bible.org and is actually a free bible translation with tons of notes.

>>Was anyone asking? You're kind of forcing the literal here, aren't you?<<

Sometimes the Bible is being quite literal. I tend to read between the lines only when it appears to be necessary. AFter all, I would suspect that there were a lot of people sinning at that time, regarding animal sacrific, but not very many people were consumed by the fire. And the only punishment the moneychangers got was their tables turned over and a peice of Jesus' mind.

>>So the believer is to be directed by feelings and tuggings of an unreliable inner nature which is part time under the sway of carnal man, part time under the influence of the Holy Spirit? Furthermore, when under the control of the old sin nature it may not be immediately apparent (ie. coveting a new blue BMW sports car is sinful but may not be construed as such at the time; the schizo mother in Texas felt led of the Lord to do the most heinous of acts). Feelings or "tuggings" are unreliable. That is why we are to walk by "faith" -- the knowledge of Scripture and its use by the Holy Spirit.<<

I definitely think that feelings are unreliable and not to be trusted. however, our only counsel in choosing to do what is right in a situation is one of three things: 1) The Bible; 2) The Holy Spirit which dwells in the believer; 3) The counsel of other believers.

Based on my communication link with the abover three, I can find nothing that should make me the slightest bit queezy about what goes on in the worship service (music) in my church. In fact, what has made me the most nervous over the years is when I have been leading hymns and look around at the "dead" looks on all the peopls faces, even those that are strong proponents of hymns over "nodern praise music with its evil jungle beat."

Like I said before. this whole argument against any one particular music "style" or judgementalism over the content of lyrics of a song not being "complete enough" is sounding more and more like something the Taliban or the Pharasees would cook up.

Each songs lyrics and each persons motives must be judged individually before we accept what they have to offer. After all, what is your impression of the lyrics of the Black Sabbath song copied here by someone in an earlier post.

Looked like food for thought to me.

And yes, the Bible admonishes us to make that sort of judgement - like choosing the best attorney or car repairman.

[RobRoy]

I am going to have to check out Avalon and Pillar in Kazaa. thanks for the tips.

[PleaseNoMore]

Let me know if you like them. Check out the group Casting Crowns too. They have some really powerful thought provoking songs.

[Zechariah11]

In fact, what has made me the most nervous over the years is when I have been leading hymns and look around at the "dead" looks on all the peopls faces, even those that are strong proponents of hymns over "modern praise music."

Amplified rock should wake them up!

I think that more and more Christians will leave these "contemporary" churches to the superficial and find new church homes which truly revere the Lord. I must admit your posts have been somewhat reasoned but check out the others on your side of the discussion. Chad says he has a new heavy metal song called "Jesus is f****king cool!" Others stereotype traditionalists as "church ladies," "Pharisees," "bigots'" or "the pastor's wife". Read their posts. That is YOUR side in this dispute. They have composed some of the most blasphemous posts I have read -- all in the name of Christian freedom. I frankly believe they worship "another Jesus". But that is whom you have decided to rally with. Look what it produces!

Reverence the Lord? Not these!

The rest of us are out the door while you folks tune up and rock on!

[PleaseNoMore]

Oh please. No one here has said anything blasphemous. You exaggerate so much.

I can't speak for the others but I know which Jesus I worship.

I worship the King of kings and Lord of Lords with freedom and liberty of spirit; not restrained by the bonds of legalism and tradition both of which I believe grieve the Holy Spirit and hinder Him.

Your accusation of blasphemy reminds me of where the Pharisees accused Jesus of such because He was different than what they thought He should be. And no, I am not calling you a Pharisee. I am saying that you have a similar mindset.

[CyberCowboy777]

I can assure you that I worship the one true Son of God.

MAT 16:13 ¶ Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He began asking His disciples, saying, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?"
MAT 16:14 And they said, "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets."
MAT 16:15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
MAT 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."
MAT 16:17 And Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.


I understand your concern with popular "Christianity" and I agree with you that many (like me) are moving towards traditional, even fundamentalist churches.

Let me give you the lyrics to a Christian Rock song and you judge it accordingly:

Artist: Jonah33
Album: Jonah33
Song: Faith Like That

I Have Heard about the Days of old
About the men who followed You
And how they saw the Supernatural
And became the chosen few

So I come before You now
Tearing off my earthly crowns
for this one thing I have Found

I want Faith Like That
To see the dead rise
or to see You pass by
Oh I, I want Faith Like That
Whatever the cost
I'll suffer the loss, Oh I
I want Faith Like That

I'm not Looking for a miracle
Signs and Wonders are things thereof
I caught a glimps of what You want from me
and what I have is not enough

I read the story one more time
of Those who gave to You Their lives
With no fear or compromise

I want Faith Like That
To see the dead rise
or to see You pass by
Oh I, I want Faith Like That
Whatever the cost
I'll suffer the loss, Oh I
I want the Faith That can move any mountain
and send them to the sea
I want the Faith that can break every stronghold
That keeps you, keeps you from me

I want Faith Like That
To see the dead rise
or to see You pass by
Oh I, I want Faith Like That

I want Faith Like That
To see the dead rise
or to see You pass by
Oh I, I want Faith Like That
Whatever the cost
I'll suffer the loss, Oh I
I want Faith Like That, a Faith like that

[CyberCowboy777]

Artist: Blindside
Album: Blindside
Song: Teddy Bear

I'm here
You've got me
Have no fear
Savior that's me
On a stable rock I'll place you
You can rest
That I will personally will see to

You called out my name
I heard you
You're healed

What happens now?
You're healed
But still I'm disappearing somehow
In your cry I'll always be near
But in your laughter I don't disappear
I'll gladly wipe away your tears
But I'll never become your teddybear

Don't throw this away
I'm no teddybear

I'm here
You've got me
Have no fear
Savior that's me
No favors that's no what I came for
If you had any idea what I've got in store

You called out my name
I heard you
You say I'm feeling fine
You say no deal
But I'll always be two steps behind
In case you change your mind
In your cry I'll always be near
But in your laughter I don't disappear
I'll gladly wipe away your tear
But I'll never become your teddybear

Think through whatever you decide to do
Can't make you but I ask you please don't fake
When you come before me
I know you don't like when you don't see me with your physical eyes
But I tell you what you think you see can be lies

[Republican Wildcat]

Would you care to explain what is watered down about that?

[Republican Wildcat]

I have seen little reverence for the Lord in any of your posts. Only hatred and bitterness.

Quite frankly, you should be embarrassed.

[reaganaut]

I doesn't say anything. There is very little that says it is a christian song, IMO.

[reaganaut]

I prefer lyrics like this by Jennifer Knapp:

A Little More

from "Lay It Down"



Turn Your eyes from on this way

I have proved to live a dastardly day

I hid my face from the saints and the angels

Who sing of Your glory

What You had in mind

My weakness shines

Show me grace



Chorus:

A little more than I can give

A little more than I deserve

Unearth this holiness I can't earn

It's a little more than I can give

A little more than I deserve



For all the sin that lives in me

It took a nail to set me free still,

What I do I don't want to do and so goes the story

What You had in mind

What we seek we'll find

Shine, show me grace



repeat chorus



With all this motivation I still find a hesitation

Deep in my soul

Despite all my demanding I still find You understanding

Show me grace

Show me grace I know is

[MP5SD]

Kazaa? Thats a whole other thread ain't it? Bet it would push this one over a thousand.

[Zechariah11]

You say he was wearing an ephod and he was but, do you tell others what an ephod is? It is an apron covering one to just below the waist or topping the thigh area. He stripped down to nothing but this ephod. Chances are all of his "business" was showing

A linen ephod was the daily wear of Levitical priests. Since nakedness was a shameful thing to them, it did not expose their buttocks or their privates.

Check out Arthur Pink's exposition on the life of David:

"And David was girded with a linen ephod." On this auspicious occasion, David laid aside his royal robes, and as taking the lead in the worship of God he wore a linen ephod. This was the ordinary garb of the priests when officiating, yet it was also used in religious exercises by those who were not priests, as the case of Samuel shows: 1 Samuel 2: 18.

The Hebrews considered nudity shameful, as illustrated by David's emissaries being humiliated by foreign powers who sent them back home with their beards shaven and their outer clothing cropped to show their buttocks (2 Sam. 10:4).

No, he was not "NAKED1 NAKED NAKED!" as you originally posted.

Nice to see you backtracking somewhat.

[Republican Wildcat]

I like both of those songs.

I personally don't see how one is any strong than the other.

[PleaseNoMore]

Have you ever seen an ephod? We have a replica that is used/shown in temple. It will show the buttocks if one puts it on and dances around in it. These were worn over the robes, not under them and never alone. So, in a sense, David was naked. I am not backtracking at all.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

I frankly believe they worship "another Jesus".

I'm glad you said that, because it's really the Mother Of All Insults to the rest of us, and until now I've been holding something back: I frankly believe you are selfish and self-centered, so much so that you would presume to dictate to other Christians the parameters by which they may be allowed to reach out to young souls who need Jesus. You would tie their hands if you could, and let's be honest - it all boils down to one thing: You don't like that kind of music.

Your arrogance, in light of your complaints about people lacking humility, is ironic.

[LearnsFromMistakes]

making melody in our hearts

you dont even sing out loud?

[Zechariah11]

So, in a sense, David was naked. I am not backtracking at all.

Well, shiver me timbers!

David --and by extension the ephod-wearing Levitical priests -- exposed their privates to all!

I am learning so much from you.

[reaganaut]

one is more obvious it is about Christ, IMO. I like both songs as well, i just think one is a better witness to non-believers, again IMO.