Posted on 12/07/2004 5:12:03 AM PST by missyme
Humans love a good story.. and after producing one(a good story) many will follow the story teller to hell and back.. just like in the first century A.D... and beyond.. I.E. Joseph Campbell, Wayne Dyer, Marx, Lenin, Hitler, Evolution Theory(many proponents), some main line "churchs", and many others.(you can add to this list, I'm sure)
Yeah.. cut a few sheeple out of the fold, come up with a good story and Viola!.. a "church".. The test is, as I see it, is not becoming a member of ANY church, but just "BEING the church" all on your own.. all by yourself. Becoming a CULT with only one member.. YOU... Fraternization with other "cults" couldn't hurt as long as you don't join them.. Its the joining thing that empties your head and heart and makes you a sheeple which is food for wolves-->> Who are dressed as sheeple with a good story or even a bad story(some humans are easier than others).. The study of Alpha male and female wolves and their underlings(Beta, Gamma etc.) is a TALE for another time... When approaching clergy, look for the tail, but they hide it real good..
The Emergent Church is often somewhat indifferent to theological and social issues that seem urgent to mainstream evangelicalism. These church members tend to think that the crusade against homosexual marriage is a waste of time and energy, and they tend to reject the exclusivistic claims that many evangelicals make about salvation.
Here they depart from Scripture. Alas, they are no improvement on the mainstream church that they reject.
CharlieOK1: "I am a Baptist and strong in my Christian beliefs, but this is something that I have struggled with. Would be interested in discussion on this subject, but maybe I need to head over to the Religion board."
What's to struggle with? Remember the thief on the cross? He was one of God's Elect, but it wasn't evident until the very day he died.
Just because Gandhi or the Dali Lama don't embrace the ONE true God today, doesn't mean we can count them out just yet.
Where there's life, there's hope that they (and many others) are one of God's elect (that he chose before the foundation of the earth. Rev.13:7-8; 17:8; Acts 13:48; Romans 8:28-30; Romans 9:11-13; Romans 11:7; 2Thess.2:13; 1 Pet.1:1 (NIV); 2:9, etc., etc., etc.
The bible spells out that in the end times many will mistake Satan for the real thing.
Salvation: the free gift that costs everybody everything but is worth even more.
?.................What part of,..... "NO".....don't you understand?
(Romans 10:17)
Huh? Maybe another cup of coffee then you could try reposting this in traditional conservative English. Thanks.
Yeah, it does. But then go to a Black church and listen to *that* music. Talk about emotional involvement!
Well the Dali Lama is still alive. Gandhi is dead. Does that make a difference? If you go to your death an unbeliever don't most mainstream Protestants (no path to the father except through me, etc) think you go to hell?
Where there's life, there's hope that they (and many others) are one of God's elect (that he chose before the foundation of the earth.
So here are you saying God has already decided who to save and who to damn? Calvinism? Where does that leave salvation through Christ?
These nondenominational churches are not good. I attended one of these "churches" and the adult members were voting on what would be considered "sins" and what would not. It seems that their beliefs are based on majority rule. These groups are more like cults waiting for someone with a strong personality to take over.
What's the struggle? God isn't a nice guy. Heaven is the most exclusive country club there is. God is a tough love Judge of All.
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? 12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. 28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes. -- Matthew 7
These Emergent Church are fundamentalists, true believers in the authority of Christ and His Word, not man made doctrine. Men are the head of the house, children are central to purpose, congregations function according to the Word.
While some fringe groups may be liberal and "accepting", the real movement towards these churches is conservative in nature. This author is either ignorant or is trying to sway Christians from even visiting these Congregations.
Are you saying predestination contradicts salvation through Christ?
What did I write that made you think I disagree with that in any way? LOL
What I wrote AFFIRMS what is written there.
I also AFFIRM this: Luke 23:42-43.
Now - did the thief know EXACTLY who he was talking to or not?
Yes he did. And he believed in Jesus BECAUSE of one thing: Matt. 16:15-17; John 10:29; 17:6
Anything there with which you disagree?
Yes.
We have several of those churches locally. One is a merger of two small churches. Very evangelical and contemporary. They seem to have eschewed politics. The UMC plant is very touchy feely, like a social club. There is a Southern Baptist plant and an RP plant. The Southern Baptist is homey and the RP is very stiff and traditional.
Of course all of them hide their denomination links. The one old-timer, an independent startup, is very conservative and growing rapidly.
Salvation implies that the door is open to all. One chooses to walk through it. What does predestination assume. That it is already decided. So why prostelitize? And more important where does that leave free will? I realize these issues were all thrashed out in the reformation and early years of colonists in America. Sadly I'm not real familiar with the arguments. I have not studied Protestant Theology either in school, nor in much depth on my own. I was raised Catholic and predestination is definately not a part of Catholic teaching.
I would be interested in being educated, but not flamed.
Oops! My mistake. I take it back about Gandhi. LOL (At least from what I know of him before he died).
M-PI: "Where there's life, there's hope that they (and many others) are one of God's elect (that he chose before the foundation of the earth."
".....Where does that leave salvation through Christ?"
You have a lot of objective studying to do - if you're emotionally capable of it.
And please excuse me, but I only engage in debate with objective people who don't begin with a false premise subject to preconceived, ill-conceived notions.
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