Posted on 12/04/2004 4:34:26 PM PST by TERMINATTOR
"This is not a gun you go deer hunting with."
Lawrence Keane, senior vice president and general counsel National Shooting Sports Foundation New York Times, 11-23-04
"They can be used for hunting. They are not any more
powerful, and they're not... you can hunt anything. People
hunt everything from deer to any type of game."
Wayne LaPierre, President
National Rifle Association
Hardball with Chris Matthews, 9-8-04
Washington, DC - The SKS rifle apparently used by the hunter to kill six other hunters in Wisconsin wasn't banned under the Federal assault weapons ban that expired September 13, but it should be banned for civilian use. Designed for use in war, even the gun industry admitted yesterday that it's not intended for hunting.
It may, in fact, be the first time the official spokesman for the National Shooting Sports Foundation has admitted that any military-style semiautomatic assault rifle is inappropriate for hunting. Lawrence Keane, senior vice president of the group, went further, and even told the New York Times that the SKS isn't a humane weapon for hunting deer. "The reason the SKS is not used by hunters, Mr. Keane said, is that it is designed for combat soldiers and is therefore underpowered for killing an animal like a deer with a single shot, the goal of good hunters," The Times wrote. "'The ethics of hunting are you don't want the animal to suffer needlessly,' Mr. Keane said."
Prior to the expiration of the assault weapons ban, the industry's spokespersons were unified in describing these types of weapons as perfectly normal for use by hunters. It was one of the industry's main arguments for letting the ban expire.
Since the ban's expiration, high-profile crimes involving assault weapons have already become more commonplace. Plano, Texas police are searching for members of a bank robbery gang that have opened fire on police with AK-47s, and that same weapon is believed to be the weapon of choice of a killer or killers who have shot eight people in West Palm Beach, Florida.
-I had thought he's at least as smart as the "executives" that get on the tube and admit(boast) that "we've lost as much this year as was made in the entire history of air travel"--
---yeah---If he was misquoted, I'd like to apologize for my first post--
By keanes logic the practice of bow hunting should be outlawed since an arrow can only travel a few dozen feet per second.
This drives me CRAZY!!! Keane DID clarify his interview with the Times reporter, and he was grossly misquoted. I CAN'T FIND THE LINK!!! I am still looking, and as soon as I find it, I will copy and paste it in its entirity. He wrote it Thankgiving morning.
Only written press releases have any chance to be quoted correctly, and you have to be careful to word things so they can't chop those a-la Charleton Hesston's speech butchered in "Bowling for Columbine". At least you can take them to task when you put it in writing.
seep=seem
When we start arguing that this weapon or that weapon is legitimate because we could hunt with it, we are well on our way to losing the argument.
Thanks, for, keeping, FR, grammatically, pure.
Well, I've got to go. Need to pick up that fifth of liquor before target practice today.
Kind of off topic: I'll be as brief as possible.
I had a 30-06 Ruger w/ scope that I had bought circa 1978.
After a house fire the contractor stored all of our belongings.
They returned a rifle to me, in MY case, that is a .243 w/ scope and I think it is a Savage. I had stopped hunting prior to the house fire but after 9/11 I started looking at refreshing my shooting skills.
The statute of limitations has expired so that I can't go back to the contractor and complain about his returning the wrong weapon to me.
In the meantime I have become out of touch w/ firearms.
What is a .243 good for other than varmints?
That the commas were kept is no surprise based on the general trends of media in the 20th century. However, I believe the original 2A had only one comma.
IMHO, FDR was allowed to "amend" the Constitution illegally and it should be challenged.
I'm a beginner at hunting...B/F knows all about the Savages
I wasn't looking to spend that much right now....I'm still a full time student (broke all the time)
An internet legend, apparently.
Depends on what that particular rifle "likes" in terms of bullet weight. There are a variety of loads available, with the heavier bullets being entirely suitable for whitetail deer and other similar game animals.
There are a number of "youth model" hunting rifles available, often chambered for .243 (which is just a necked-down .308 Winchester).
With the lighter-weight projectiles, the .243 is a superb cartridge for tougher varmints, such as coyotes.
My first high-powered rifle was a Remington 788 in .243. Wish I still had it, but I foolishly traded the plain-Jane (but accurate) rifle in and bought something shinier.
I'm curious... how long after the return of your gun case was it that you discovered the contents had, er, changed?
The NSSF might have gone stupid on us.... (Fletchette/AR15.Com)
Keane's reply:
Sent: Thu 11/25/2004 3:47 AM
Has it occurred to you that the NY Times took my comments out of context, created quotes, and distorted its my comments to advance its own agenda? The reporter is well know for having an antigun agenda and to whom the Brady Center regularly feeds stories.
I never said SKS are "rare" I never said they're never used to hunt. I never said you couldn't use 7.62 to hunt deer. I never said it was inappropriate to hunt w/ a semiauto. I never said anything about it being designed for "combat soldier." I never said SKS was in humane to hunt deer with.
I said this guy wasn't a hunter, he was a nut. I said SKS were not among the most common deer hunting rifles - they aren't but that isn't the same as saying they are "rare" or never used. My discussion w/ the NY Times was in general terms -- he was asking about AK-47's, the interview got into a general discussion about so-called "black guns" and the sunsetting of the Assault Weapons Ban. The discussion about ethical hunting related to a question about what's wrong w/ shooting an animal lots of times. In the discussion about the sunsetting of the Assault Weapon Ban I suggested to him that the Bradys and VPC, etc falsely claimed, as did many in the media, that these so-called 'black guns' were "high powered" and I suggested to him that deer hunting rifles were more powerful.
I've done countless interviews w/ the print, radio, TV including 2x w/ 60 Minutes representing the interests of gun owners and the industry. Even Mickey Mantle made an error every once in awhile. I'm sorry I didn't do a better job. I've learned a valuable lesson about dealing with the NY Times. Tomorrow I'm going to Radio Shack and buying a tape recorder.
Enough said on the subject. I'm going back to the dinner table to spend time w/ my family on Thanksgiving. I hope you and your family have a Happy Thanksgiving.
The house fire was in 93. I didn't even open the case of the rifle until shortly after 9/11.
There were health issues involved that wouldn't allow me to hunt anymore that I thought I should mention.
State law, or federal? We are, after all, talking about something that is under BATF jurisdiction.
I have been there, though it was a couple of decades ago. I would recommend accuracy over speed of fire for a novice. Accuracy is what you need, generally, for coyotes. You might consider going to your local gun club and asking advise. People there are usually interested in helping young people get started. See if someone there is willing to point you toward a used rifle. A lot of people like to buy rifles, try them out, and then sell them and buy another. If you ask around, you can usually find a good deal. The best possible thing would be to have someone coach you on rifle shooting, so that you can make an informed decision.
If you knew exactly what you wanted, I'd suggest that you find one at a gun show, but you really need to know what you are doing when you are dealing with strangers.
I'd also recommend spending a little more money for a known name brand. The resale price will tend to stay the same if you need to sell it in the future. For a small framed woman, I'd recommend the .223 or .243.
The first is good for varmints, and can be used for deer in some states. The second is used for both deer and varmints everywhere. The only disadvantage is that the .243 ammunition is at least twice as expensive as the .223.
I am happy to be a resource for you (I teach firearms courses professionally) if you have any questions. I have seen people at gun shows get excellent rifles for about $200 - $250, but as I say, you need to have some expertise. I am hoping someone at the local gun club will help. When I have seen young women go to gun clubs, the response has always been extremely positive, helpful, and courteous.
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