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Another victory for the environmental crowd.
1 posted on 12/01/2004 4:36:16 AM PST by Tom D.
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To: Tom D.

I couldn't see the rest of the article. Where does the environmental crowd play into this story? When I was young, my ma was a leftie type, and she used to point out the deer from the car--oooh ohhh, look at the deer!--and she also referred to hunters in disparaging terms--beer swillers, drunks--and probably opposed deer hunting at some point if she got the opportunity. Is that how the enviros figure into this story? Here in NJ, we got plenty of deer. It's hunting season this week, I think. I don't hunt so I have no idea what the limit is on deer, and how that jives with our deer population. I'm always looking out for em while driving, that's for sure. Deer are definitely plentiful, and definitely a factor in the smaller growth and saplings, etc.


2 posted on 12/01/2004 4:40:47 AM PST by Huck (The day will come when liberals will complain that chess is too violent .)
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To: Tom D.

My lefty in-laws live in a rich town in Connecticut. Hate Bush, Loved Kerry. Love the environment. They HATE deer. The deer ruin their gardens. They just wish SOMEONE could do SOMETHING about the dang deer. I mentioned hunting and they were horrified! There has to be some other way ...


4 posted on 12/01/2004 4:56:08 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (The fourth estate is a fifth column.)
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To: Tom D.
That means little trees aren't growing up to eventually replace big trees. Example: oaks. Deer love acorns. Surviving acorns sprout seedlings. Deer love them, too. Surviving seedlings become saplings. Deer strip them of leaves and bark. They die.

Who, exactly, does Mr. Sterba thinks is his audience in this article*? 6-year olds?

* Rhetorical question

6 posted on 12/01/2004 4:58:25 AM PST by Lil'freeper (Error 404. The page you requested was not found.)
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To: Tom D.

"... whitetails have been eating their way toward a more lasting legacy: They are wreaking ecological havoc in forests across the nation."

No way. It's all Bush's fault. And SUVs.


8 posted on 12/01/2004 5:01:40 AM PST by Gefreiter ("Flee...into the peace and safety of a new dark age." HP Lovecraft)
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To: Tom D.

This reminds me of what goats have done to areas where they are turned loose to feed for "free" to be harvested later for "free" meat. On some formerly lush Carribean islands they have eaten every bit of vegetation until all that are left are heavily thorned bushes and trees. Natural selection in action.


10 posted on 12/01/2004 5:03:45 AM PST by Stirner
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To: Tom D.
I'm totally over the deity status that architects -- landscape and the other kind -- bestow upon themselves in their self-appointed mission to design away life's troubles.

Time for a reality check. It's pencils and paper, boys. The deer did just fine before you came to save them. And architecture has never improved upon the New England saltbox or the Parthenon. Get over it.

12 posted on 12/01/2004 5:12:23 AM PST by the invisib1e hand (if a man lives long enough, he gets to see the same thing over and over.)
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To: Tom D.

Ah, but it's true. Deer are he mammal version of Locusts - very destructive. This is not an article supporting environmentalists. It's an argument for venison stew.


13 posted on 12/01/2004 5:13:23 AM PST by SolutionsOnly
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To: Tom D.
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

I say "Let's arm the squirrels!!"

17 posted on 12/01/2004 5:25:30 AM PST by WideGlide (That light at the end of the tunnel might be a muzzle flash.)
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To: Tom D.

DEER ARE VERMIN!!! Why the hell they get protection by our own government is insane to me. They are just giant RATS!

There are more deer in my state than there are people!

There are more White Tail Deer in the US today than there were when the pilgrims landed!

You can see dead dear on the highways everywhere, and for every dead deer is a far too common story of tragedy for a human being of human family that had the misfortune of having the giant rat jump out in front of them.


18 posted on 12/01/2004 5:26:31 AM PST by HamiltonJay ("You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.")
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To: Tom D.
Deer are bad for the planet Earth.

All hunters are part of PETA's greater plan.

20 posted on 12/01/2004 5:27:51 AM PST by Lazamataz ("Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown" -- harpseal)
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To: Tom D.
If I'd won my election here in PA, one of the first pieces of legislation I'd have drafted would be to end deer hunting season entirely.  Go out 12 months a year and drop as many as you possibly can.  Cull the herd so to say.  Try to erase any stigma about leaving them where they fall.
 
I remember in a Field Ecology class I took that it's estimated that deer are 14 times more plentiful than they were when the first colonists came ashore.
 
As people move into wooded areas, they increase "forest edge" (first 300 feet into the forest) which is ideal dear habitat.  If we keep creating an environment and don't introduce a predator, say wolves, or me with a rifle, of course we're going to have a population explosion and all sorts of unintended side effects.

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”


25 posted on 12/01/2004 5:43:22 AM PST by End Times Sentinel (Zell Miller- No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy.)
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To: Tom D.
I say we "harvest" the deer and market the venison like beef. It'd prolly help lower the risk of imported MCD.

Instead, IMO, many states set tag limits too low for the available number of hunters and the probability of all those hunters tagging their limits are even lower. In a local hunt club, I don't know of many who've tagged their limit for two years consecutively, but some who could have killed more had they more available tags. BTST, there are other members who'd only killed one - maybe two, the whole season, but the regulations, AFAIK, don't allow hunters to "share" limits.

Someone with more knowledge might enlighten me on the subject....

28 posted on 12/01/2004 5:45:30 AM PST by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: Tom D.
I live in Worton. Md. Counted(stopped at 40) deer within the confines of two yards on my block. The enviros down here are whacked out also. Can't grow poison ivy or anything . They eat it all. Waiting for them to discover garbage.
30 posted on 12/01/2004 5:56:41 AM PST by primatreat (Deer are more rat like every day)
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To: Tom D.

http://www.wisinfo.com/dailytribune/wrdtlocal/282134233411844.shtml

...Based on land area, deer densities are highest in east-central and west-central Wisconsin and in several units in northwestern Wisconsin. By comparison, densities are lower in southeastern and southwestern Wisconsin and in several west-central management units.

The statewide population averaged about 25 deer per square mile in 2003...


http://www.wnrmag.com/stories/1996/aug96/herd.htm

...Some leafy plants are stressed when deer populations swell to more than 12-15 animals per square mile.

...When deer populations rise above 20-25 per square mile, these trees are heavily browsed and have a tough time surviving.

...Every year, more than 40,000 deer collide with cars on highways and back roads. These accidents injure people, kill deer and cause an estimated $90 million in damage claims. Some auto body shops report 25-50 percent of their income is generated by car-deer collisions. The accident rates are high in most urban and rural areas where deer numbers exceed 25 per square mile.


36 posted on 12/01/2004 6:10:36 AM PST by hlmencken3 ("...politics is a religion substitute for liberals and they can't stand the competition")
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To: Tom D.

A few months ago, Scientific American had an article about a similar situation in Yellowstone. Environmentalists for years wondered why no new forest growth was occurring. Then wolves were reintroduced and new forest growth was observed. The problem ws that Caribou were free roaming the park and eating every sapling they found so no new trees were growing. The reintroduction of wolves made the caribou stop their free roaming and stay in more strategically safe areas. The wolves also culled the herds so there was less demand for vegetative food. The net result was new forest growth and with the new forest growth, the populations of small mammals, birds and insects rebounded as well. The bottom line is that over protection of one herbivorous species can harm an entire ecosystem and ruin the environment therein.


41 posted on 12/01/2004 6:25:17 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: Tom D.
One can look at some of the East Texas forest to see what managed forestation as done.

As the Texas Yellow Pines are harvested, the land is replanted with Spruce Pines, a quicker growing but inferior quality wood.

Periodic controlled burns clean up forest floor to aid in growth and a straighter tree/product. The result is a forest of telephone poles void of wildlife. No animals and no birds. It is a strange sight to see.

44 posted on 12/01/2004 8:42:45 AM PST by Deaf Smith
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To: Tom D.
It has lots of tall, mature conifers and hardwoods, some 100 years old. Under them, virtually nothing grows ... That means little trees aren't growing up to eventually replace big trees.

Time to do some serious harvesting, of both deer and timber. Opening up large areas of canopy will stimulate new growth.

45 posted on 12/01/2004 9:00:10 AM PST by Freebird Forever
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To: Tom D.
I'm waiting for the deer and geese populations in New Jersey to reach the point where the two critters have to duke it out for standing room.
46 posted on 12/01/2004 9:02:43 AM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: Tom D.; abbi_normal_2; Ace2U; adam_az; Alamo-Girl; Alas; alfons; alphadog; amom; AndreaZingg; ...
Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.
57 posted on 12/01/2004 8:45:18 PM PST by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
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To: Tom D.; farmfriend
,,, property damage, cars hitting deer, hunting... and all the rest. What about farming deer? Has anyone actually captured and contained deer for farming?

I'm a foreigner and I'm not sure what US law allows but it's viable.

60 posted on 12/02/2004 12:19:07 PM PST by shaggy eel
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