[winodog]

I guess we are talking about two different things. I see the Catholic Church as a institution like no other.

The apology should come (if indeed one is forthcoming) from the church as a whole not individuals who have nothing to do with with happened hundreds of years ago.

It is far different then asking for the US gov.org to apoligize for slavery. Comparing the names and nations you mention to the church is far different because all of those have come and go but the Catholic Church has stood "upon the rock" for two thousand years. Like I said it is a institution like no other. If you cannot see that then I will not discuss the issue further. You may have the last word.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

We can agree to disagree. Since I don't adhere to "collective guilt" theories, there's no need for anyone to apologize. No one alive did anything wrong in the 1300s. The debasement of religious institutions by flawed, evil men is certainly a subject for debate, historical and scholarly study, and heated discussion. The crimes of officials of the Church of England, the Congregationalists of 17th-century New England, German Lutherans and Anabaptists are certainly parallel moments of injustice.

EVERY educated and civilized Catholic I know agrees that religious executions and religious-sanctioned murder are wrong. And I am not sure that liberal secular humanists, despite their enthusiasm for pointing figures at odd moments in Catholic history, would find the revival of religious military orders to be all that welcome.