Then there is the other series; Ceres.
Posted on 11/29/2004 9:00:30 AM PST by TERMINATTOR
At the risk of noting the obvious, Sunday's deadly confrontation between a semiautomatic weapon-wielding Minnesotan and a group of hunters in northern Wisconsin can and should be factored into debates about the availability of semiautomatic and automatic weapons.
When hunters in Sawyer County confronted the Minnesotan - a 36-year-old Hmong immigrant named Chai Vang who was in a deer stand on private property and told him that he would have to leave - several of the greatest myths that are peddled by opponents of gun control exploded.
To wit:
• Myth One: A semiautomatic weapon is just another kind of gun.
When he was told to leave, in what may or may not have been a racially charged incident, Vang is reported to have responded by opening fire with a high-powered semiautomatic SKS carbine. By the time he was done, six hunters - five men and a woman - were dead or dying. Two others were badly wounded. Several had been shot more than once. Though advocates for no-holds-barred gun policies will claim that just as much havoc could have been wreaked with a standard hunting rifle, that claim is nonsense.
Semiautomatic weapons are increasingly popular among hunters of a not particularly sporting ilk. But it is comic to suggest that they are needed for hunting, unless the targets are people. In northern Wisconsin on Sunday, the toll was higher because the shooter had a semiautomatic weapon.
Does this mean that we need a blanket ban on semiautomatic and automatic assault weapons from here on out? Not necessarily. There are subtleties in this debate - especially when guns are modified. But the debate ought to be more realistic than it has been up to this point, and what happened in northern Wisconsin on Sunday ought to be factored into the debate.
• Myth Two: When people are well armed and trained to use their weapons, they can protect themselves against gun violence.
The victims in Sawyer County had access to guns and knew how to use them. Most of the dead had long experience with their weapons. But they were not prepared for a confrontation with a man who was ready to kill and was carrying a semiautomatic weapon.
The notion that more guns will ever translate into less violence has always been absurd. But the incident on Sunday should remind everyone of the extent to which this fantasy can be deadly.
The point here is not to advocate for sweeping gun controls. This newspaper has always recognized the right to bear arms and we respect the hunting traditions that are so ingrained in Wisconsin.
The group of hunters who were attacked in the woods on Sunday had a right to bear arms. Initial reports suggested that most of them were exercising that right responsibly, although Vang's statement raised concerns about whether that was really the case. The Minnesotan claims that at least one of the Wisconsin hunters shouted a racial epithet at him and then shot at him.
The details of what really happened will have to be sorted out.
But the fact that volatile situations are made dramatically more dangerous when semiautomatic weapons are present should be beyond debate.
Sensible gun controls - perhaps in the form of a ban on hunting with semiautomatic and automatic weapons; perhaps in the form of a more sweeping restriction on the purchase of some guns - place some restrictions on the absolute right to bear arms. But such controls might well have saved at least some of the lives of those hunters.
The proper response to this deadly incident is a balanced one. Wisconsinites have a right to bear arms and to hunt, and that right ought to be protected. But they also have a right to be protected from weapons that are better designed for hunting people than deer.
I thought that the evil assault rifle had gotten out of its case on its own, run into the street and fired randomly at people (as it has happened so many times in the past).
Could the crazed SUV have used an assault rifle to do the dirty deed?
You're new here, I see.
You, Sir or Madam, are a blathering idiot, no insult intended.
don't confuse us with facts.
the police in our news reports and antigunners in general these days, refer to bolt action 22's, lever action rifles and anything that holds more than ONE shot in a magazine, "semi" automatic.
it's disgusting... irritating AND clearly a rhetorical term used to try and stir up fear in the mothers of america.
and it works.
Guess so! i shouldn't be so quick to correct spelling.
So far, words I should not correct:
maroon
pees
stuned
hugh
series
Then there is the other series; Ceres.
Then there is the other series; Ceres.
"To address this twit's second point, having access to and knowing how to use guns didn't do squat for the dead hunters because THEY WEREN"T CARRYING THEIR GUNS (except one guy). If the hunters had all been armed, Vang would have had a very short and exciting life once he started shooting."
...what the twit is really arguing for without knowing it is
a nationwide carry permit to insure all the lawful folks can carry anwhere , any time.
A .22 in the pocket is better than a .45 in the drawer at home.
shooting people in the back is extremely poor use
of "self defense".
If all were armed , the Vangster may have had an argument.
He has no defense no matter how many shysters the Hmong
community hires for this dirtbag. Typical of the Cochran
defense, they will make this about race/culture.
In Vang's statement to police, he said that others came up to the victims on ATVs but he didn't shoot at them because they had GUNS.
So I guess they want the government to get rid of all their "non-hunting" weapons ?
Of course! The police are your friend...and they're SO professional....
Just doesn't fit their agenda I guess......
Hmmm...a Laotian Hmong, with the name "Vang"....
a family/tribal relative of Hmong General Vang Pao, who supported and was supported by Air America in Laos on behalf of the CIA during the late 1960s- early '70s, perhaps? Many of such were resettled to the Missoula, Montana and Minneapolis/ St Paul area by the Agency after the US house of cards in Saigon fell. And I suspect that we'll find that the shooter in this case was a veteran of those spookjob operations....
3 Milwaukee lawyers will work for Vang
November 28, 2004
Chai Soua Vang, the 36-year-old St. Paul man suspected of killing six Wisconsin hunters last Sunday, has retained three prominent Milwaukee attorneys to represent him.
Originally, Vang was represented by three public defenders.
Attorneys James Ment-kowski, Steven Kohn and Jonathan Smith will hold a news conference at 3 p.m. today in Milwaukee to talk about the case. "We're not saying anything until the press conference," Mentkowski said Saturday.
Not precisely. Thai Vang was both a veteran of the CIA paramilitary forces operating in Laos, and the US Army. About which, you'll find more here.
And Thai Vang was also one of the very first of the Hmong resettled to the US by the agency. I think we'll find out that there's a whole lot more about this story that hasn't come to light yet....
Remember all, a gun all by itself never killed anyone... it takes a person to pull the trigger. The fact that the man with the SKS knew what he was doing with what he had does not make the gun itself good or bad; it makes the case for preparedness by law abiding citizens against threats of the like.
He got the drop on them, as they say in the Westerns.
When will they learn?
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