***Ukraine Election Latest News Ukraine***

BBC ^ | Nov 26 | BBC

[eluminate]

"Envoys bid to end Ukraine Crisis" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4044037.stm P.S. good map on bottom showing distribution of support geographicly. Although Polatava and Kirivohrad were very close about 60/40 and 55/45 respectively the rest had margins over 65% in favor of one or the other.

"Donetsk rallies around its man" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4043601.stm excerpt: "Donetsk makes up 10% of Ukraine's population and provides 20% of GDP."

"Court freezes Ukraine poll result" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4042979.stm excrept(s): Mr Yushchenko had also ordered the creation of a people's self-defence force - the "Ukrainian Guard".

http://www.ya2004.com.ua/ (yanukovych's campaign) http://www.razom.org.ua/ (yushchenko's campaign)

[unfortunately a bluestater]

How do we know Soros supported Yushchenko, does anyone remember?

[fallujah-nuker]

Thanks for the map, I have an atlas from 1924 that shows an independent Ukraine, but the Crimea and territory along the northern shore of the Sea of Azov as far north as the Dneiper as being part of Russia. Khrushchev transfered the Crimea (which is mainly Russian ethnically)to the Ukraine in 1956.

I think that your map probably reflects an ethnic division, and I feel it would be unwise for the US to dragged in to guarantee boundaries drawn up by the communists 50 years ago without the consent of those who were affected. I would probably be better for the ethnic Russian areas to reunite with Russia.

This seems to be a very emotional issue here, and I really do not have a dog in this fight. To my knowledge I have neither Russian or Ukrainian blood in my veins. From the standpoint of what is in the best interests of the USA, I cannot help but recall how noisy many EU leaders have been about the need to balance out the American hyperpower. perhaps a greater Russia would serve as a balance to the EU?

It should be recalled that the Ukraine did not allow the interests of the USA to intervene when she transfered the carrier Varyag to China in 2001. URL:
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/surface/aircraftcarrier.asp

[tim_bc]

You seem quite one sided on this, not that there is a problem with that but you complain about the west interfering. What about Russia interfering? There are many reports of Russian troops in the country(disguised as Ukrainian troops or special ops), does that not mean they are meddling with the internal affairs of a sovereign nation as well? Last I checked Ukraine was suppose to be independent of Russia no? Both sides have alot to win or loose on this, I don't disagree with you. However, as your pointing out to others, you should not be one sided either.

Cheers,

Tim

[Fred Nerks]

"The Soros Family's Dance around Death (The George Soros Story):
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1288454/posts

[BunnySlippers]

How much "fraud", what kind of "abuses"? There seem to be only general assertions, but totally without specific allegations or any evidence. At least, none that has been cited.

There was an extensive article posted on FR a couple of days ago detailing the exact instances of fraud. It was from a Russian paper published outside of Russia.

If I can find it I will post it.

[keysguy]

Ukraine is now in a political quagmire. It seems it is being pushed or pulled from every direction. Putin and his Russian mobster buddies wants it for "mother" Russia so he can re-establish his former Soviet Union. Election corruption has been well documented, they even have audio tapes, both candidates seem tainted if you read the 10-15 thread I have read on here. If you want a perfect candidate I suggest he was probably not running in this election. Maybe the entire election should be done over. Either way politics in the Ukraine are a mess at best IMHO.

[keysguy]

I read on several threads he did, one thread mentioned he put up 25 million, what really happened, heaven only knows at this point.

[Truth666]

Place your bets. After all it's the end game. This was the first thread to point out the obvious. It's the end game for NATO. And that's why it is also the end game for Moscow.
Forget about negotiated splitting of the Ukraine. What NATO wants, starting with Sevastopol, is located in the wrong half.

[beyond the sea]

Gotta love the turnout in Donetsk, "which reached 100% in one in six polling stations in the region"

Sounds like a lot of inner city (Dem) precincts in Philly (and elsewhere)!

;-)

[John Valentine]

From the following thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1288431/posts

Here is the Transcript and addt'l info. Hey Despots, ain't this internet a bitch! So much for GroupThink!
Shades of Rathergate!
Ouch! Check out the one line

"We have agreed for a 3-3,5% difference in our favour. We are preparing a table"


How Yanukovich Falsified the Elections. Intercepted Phone Calls of the Head Office
Ukrains'ka pravda, 24 November 2004
[translated by Yulia Yarotska for UKL]

High ranked officials of the law enforcement bodies have passed to the Yushchenko's office
audio files and prints of the conversations from the "shaded" office of Yanukovich. The
information clearly shows that Yanukovich firmly controlled the voting and votes counting
processes during both rounds of election. With the help of "detaching" coupons (which
gives people the right to vote at a different occasion than the one they are registered
for if there is a justified need), "closed" voting, voting at home and other methods,
Yanukovich and his team were able to reach their goals with little problems. The
application of mobile voting, the knowledge of exact numbers of "detaching" coupons, and
usage of manipulative technologies as well as usage of exit-polls results gave them an
advanced knowledge of precise final results.

Here are prints of only three conversations that took place on the day of second round of
elections; the original language is preserved. Yushchenko's office promises that the mass
media will have audio files during next few hours.

1) November 21, 2004, 16:59
Levenets (the political technologist of Yanukovich): How do you do?
Unknown: We have results for 14:30; for now we are losing by1,46%
Levenets: Are we losing overall?
Unknown: We have interviewed 6.700, that is 60% of our sample. As I understand, the
dynamics will favour us from now, because all these "villagers" have already voted. We'll
gain advantage.
Levenets: When will we have the approximate results?
Unknown: After 19:00. We have agreed that we'll make them before 18:00.
Levenets: We have to have aan dvantage already at 18:00. Do you keep in touch with Edik?
Unknown: Yes. At what time do you need results?
Levenets: At 18:00 according the preliminary results we have to have an advantage.
Unknown: I have agreed with him that I'll give him real results, he will produce
parameters; he will need half an hour. Hold on, we are finishing at 18:00; so we'll have
results at 19:00. After 19:00 I'll give you the results. We'll settle down the parameters
and will come to the required results.
Levenets: Deal then.

(2) November 21, 2004, 19:05
Levenets: Greetings! How do you do?
Valeriy: Not very good. We have negative results.
Levenets: What do you mean?
Valeriy: 48.37 for opposition, 47.64 for us.
Levenets: Is this for 18:00?
Valeriy: We have agreed for a 3-3,5% difference in our favour. We are preparing a table
with the results per oblast; you'll have it by fax in 15-20 minutes.
Levenets: How many people have been interviewed at 18:00?
Valeriy: 10612
Levenets: Is this "real"?
Valeriy: Yes. Can we place this data on our website? Or should we give it to Interfax, so
we are not exposed on TV?
Levenets: Call Prutnik, he is in charge on these issues.
Valeriy: I think we need to speed up the organizational measures to avoid possible
complications.
Levenets: I've understood. Keep in touch.

(3) November 21, 2004, 19:34
Unknown is telling Sergey Kliuev (the brother of the current head of the Yanukovich
office, Andrey Kliuev), that "at KPI in one hour they have increased by 30%"
Unknown: We have forced the students outside, the professors were controlling the gates:
"do not allow anyone from outside!"
Kliuev: Let's send our support group over there.
Unknown: We have already did it.
Kliuev: So let's organize some fights or something like this.
Unknown: Already in progress.

(4) November 22, 2004, 05:30
Levenets: How do you do? What is going on? How come Kiev is rising?
Unknown: I have the next situation: roughly I have 18.2% for our candidate and 76% for
Yushchenko.
Levenets: have you already summarized everything?
Unknown: Yes, and I have a plan for next step.
Levenets: Do you have all protocols?
Unknown: Yes, but in CEC they put aside 7 protocols, according to my order. I have to
decide now whether to cancel them or not.
Levenets: Do you have any reasons to cancel them?
Unknown: Yes.
Levenets: So what is the problem?
Unknown: The parameters will be lower, but the balance will be better.
Levenets: Send to hell these parameters; the balance will be better!
Unknown: Sure.
Levenets: So, no questions; do it.
Unknown: I've got it. I will try to do it now.
Levenets: No problems. We are in the black. Improve our balance; we'll simply advance even
more.

These are only some talks that were provided by Yushchenko's representatives. In general
we have access to the conversations between Yanukovich representatives from October 30 up
to today's morning.

The voices of Medvedchuk, Kivalov, brothers Kliuev, Tsariov, Liovochkin, Prutnik are
recorded. Oleg Rybachuk, the head of the Yushchenko's office, has stated that these
conversations will be publicized shortly. They are currently preparing to provide
international organizations, embassies of foreign countries and NGOs with the copies of
records of conversations.

One of the deputies has stated that he is preparing to transfer the records to the office
of Prosecutor General of Ukraine and Security Service of Ukraine (SBU); he will demand
explanations or justifications about the validity of the information.

Rybachuk has emphasized that the person who provided Yushchenko's representatives with the
samples is in a safe place. The person is ready to testify in court and to affirm and
guarantee the validity of this evidence.

(Thanks to blackminorcapullets)

Maybe you don't see any evidence of fraud and manipulation in there, but I do, and probably the courts will, too.

[wildandcrazyrussian]

Note also that the Trans-Carpathian Oblast (the extreme western province bordering Poland, Romania, Hungary, and Slovakia), whose people have NEVER considered themselves Ukrainian just like in the Crimea, voted 55/45 (of 600,000) and a switch of just 31,000 voters would make it a majority the other way, so it is not precisely a west/east split. This is the area which voted in 1991 to be independent of the Ukraine just as Russia and Ukraine were voting to be independent of the Soviet Union.

[geedee]

Hell, no wonder everything is messed up over there. The ballot isn't even in English!

[Atlantic Friend]

I agree. We have Belarus in Russian orbit, now Russia wants to strong-arm Ukraine, and it's Russian proxies we should support ?

What are the news from Poland, Lukasz ? How are the turmoil in neighboring Ukraine and the Russian involvement analyzed by the Polish government ? I suppose there is a large Polish population in Western Ukraine and that what happens there is closely watched by Warsaw.

[Rocky Mountain Mama]

A lot of these questions have already been addressed in other threads. There are dozens on the Ukraine election crisis right now. Here is a link to the Thread Roundup: Ukraine Election Crisis: Thread Roundup If you find the link to the election fraud one, please post it here, and on the roundup thread too. Thank you.

[Atlantic Friend]

Man, this is one staggering transcription you just gave us !

[blackminorcapullets]

Eluminate, Fair Opinion, and all the rest.

We know who you are.

Your methods stick out like sore thumbs. Despite all your sraw men and straw dogs, the truth remains that the leading contender in Ukraine was almost murdered by a truck accident, then he was almost murdered by a cocktail of "Designer" viruses, and then your boss Putin did the only thing left - falsify the election by a factor of 20%. And this does not even bring up the fact of the hundreds of journalists and govt officials who have been killed along the way - including a police officer that tried to protect one polling station from Putin's thugs.

Now we have Russian troops in the capital. We know why they are there and we know why you are here. Your attempts at disinformation no longer work in the age of the internet.

If you think Rather crashed and burned, wait till you see Putin's plummet. We gave Russia a chance after Glasnost and now they have shown their true colors.

This will bring down Putin, and unfortunately adversely affect good Russian people.

[blackminorcapullets]

"everyone mentiones Donetsk turnout which was astronomical but they forget to mention Lviv turnout which was 94 and ivano frankovs which was 92"

Ah yes eluminate, these are the areas that fought the Russians most bitterly after the Bolshevics killed 15 million Ukrainians when Stalin stole the Breadbasket of Europe to prop up his failed 5 year plan in 1932

I would expect these people to be very motivated.

Incidentally, did you tell us how Stalin then replaced these dead Ukrainians with Moscow Russians - and that is why there are so many "Russians" in Ukraine?

You did'nt? Well why not.

Perhaps you will tell us about allthe money that the Russian are spending on lobbyists in Wash DC regarding this Ukrainian Election.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1288531/posts

Here is a fellow that received $21 million - and he was the Director of the Election Board. I wonder what that was for?

So Eluminate, how is business?

[sanchmo]

This map corresponds exactly with the map in Huntington's book, "The Clash of Civilizations."

The Eastern "blue" half is Orthodox and either of Russian descent or mixed Russian boold. The Western "orange" half os Catholic, more purely Ukranian, and more pro-western. This is the case in many formet Soviet republics, as Moscow intentionally shifted borders and populations to make their satellite republics divided. In this case, they gave the Crimea to Ukraine, and sent Russians to Ukraine. And now Puty is using that excuse to keep them under Russian control.

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

[BJClinton]

the majority of the representatives of the Polish diaspora in the United States hate George Bush

Not from what I've seen, but then, all the Poles I know are Texan.

[AdmSmith]

If I had a glass of vodka for every error in the Mosnews article I would be as unconscious as the Russians that planned for the coup d'etat against Gorbachev in 1991.