Hunters Give Conflicting Accounts of Killings in Wisconsin

newsmax ^ | 11-24-04

[LouAvul]

HAYWARD, Wis. – The man suspected of shooting six hunters to death and a survivor agree that the tragedy began with a confrontation on private land. But they sharply differ on what happened next.

Survivor Lauren Hesebeck told investigators Chai Vang, 36, of St. Paul, Minn., turned around after a verbal exchange and started shooting his rifle from 40 yards away.

But Vang told Sawyer County investigators he began firing only after one of Hesebeck's hunting buddies, Terry Willers, shot at him with a rifle from about 100 feet away and missed. Vang, a Hmong immigrant from Laos, also claimed the hunters taunted him with racial slurs and warned him he would be reported to law enforcement for being on private land, according to a document filed Tuesday.

Hesebeck's version, contained in the same statement, makes no mention of that type of language or verbal hostility, other than saying Vang used profanity at one point.

Hesebeck, who was released from a hospital Tuesday after treatment for a shoulder wound, told investigators Willers shot at Vang after Vang fired first but missed.

Both accounts agreed that Vang shot the others as more people from the deer camp arrived at the scene, summoned by Hesebeck using a walkie-talkie to call for help.

Vang said he continued firing as the group scattered, and at one point chased one of the hunters and shot him in the back, only to find the man had no gun, the document states.

Authorities have said there was only one gun among the victims. According to investigators, it's believed Vang fired at least 20 shots.

Hesebeck told the Star Tribune of Minneapolis on Tuesday that much of what he had heard in news media reports about the shootings was not accurate.

"A lot of it is not true," he said. "But at this point, I just can't discuss anything." Members of his family and another victim's family had planned to talk with reporters Wednesday but canceled the news conference.

Sunday's shootings occurred after Vang got lost while hunting, climbed into a tree stand on private property and then got into the confrontation with Willers and others hunting with him.

The victims were part of a group of about 15 people who made their annual opening-weekend trip to the 400-acre property co-owned by Robert Crotteau and Willers.

Killed were Crotteau, 42; his son, Joey Crotteau, 20; Al Laski, 43; Mark Roidt, 28; Jessica Willers, 27; and Denny Drew, 55, all from the Rice Lake area. Terry Willers, Jessica's father, remained hospitalized Wednesday in good condition.

Vang was arrested about four hours after the shootings as he emerged from the woods with his empty semiautomatic rifle. Five people died in the woods; a sixth died Monday in a hospital. Two others were wounded.

Hmong 'Condemn These Atrocities'

There have been previous clashes between Southeast Asian and white hunters in the region. Hunters have complained the Hmong do not understand the concept of private property and hunt wherever they want. The tension once led to a fistfight in Minnesota, and a Hmong bow hunter in Wisconsin this fall reported having at least two white hunters point guns at him.

About 24,000 Hmong live in St. Paul, the highest concentration of any U.S. city. Hmong leaders condemned the shootings and offered condolences to victims' families.

"What happened in Wisconsin is in no way representative of the Hmong people and what they stand for," said Cha Vang, no relation to the suspect.

"We stand before you as representatives of the greater law-abiding Hmong community to unconditionally, unconditionally, condemn these atrocities."

New details about Vang began to emerge Tuesday.

Military records obtained by The Associated Press show he spent six years in the California National Guard and earned a sharpshooter qualification badge. But his primary role during his time in the Guard, from 1989-95, involved clerical duties.

After his discharge, he spent two more years in the Individual Ready Reserve. His records also include a Good Conduct medal.

Circuit Judge Norman Yackel ordered Vang jailed Tuesday on $2.5 million bail. He ruled that evidence submitted to him was sufficient to hold Vang on suspicion of murder and attempted murder, pending the filing of formal charges.

[Dr Snide]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1287569/posts

try here

[TheDon]

Yes, they could learn some lessons from the Hmong in PR, American style!

[Double Tap]

Thank you.

[Hegemony Cricket]

Your approach bespeaks great wisdom...

[MineralMan]

"Vang is a Serial Killer. Treat him as such. Shooting 8 people over a verbal confrontation does not fall under the rules of justification.

"

Actually, he is a mass murderer, not a serial killer. And yes, he should, and will, be treated as such.

[MineralMan]

"Thank you for that lesson in basic logic. Apparently some here need it.
"

Hmm...Well, I've taken a good deal of abuse here for defending the Hmong people in general. We don't condemn an entire society for the actions of one person, or we shouldn't, at least. That seems clear enough to me.

Punish criminals, not ethnic groups.

[Major_Risktaker]

As Bush is determined to give amnesty to millions of others that are in our country illegally, as millions more continue to pour in. While we are left holding the bag.

Woodrow Wilson

Their is not much I like about WW, however he did get the "hyphenated Americans" problem right.

Woodrow Wilson also regarded those whom he termed "hyphenated Americans" (German-Americans, Irish-Americans, etc.) with suspicion:

"Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready."

Interesting statement from an American President almost 100 years ago. Why was Wilson's statement used then but not remembered today?

With all of the illegally immigration today
this little booklet needed to be handed
out more.

Property Rights
&
other good things inside.

If not our Founding Father's words will be
forgotten and the agenda of the left would
have won the day.

[PeoplesRepublicOfWashington]

Sorry, no death penalty in the progressive state of Wisconsin.

[SittinYonder]

The important question everyone should be asking is whether or not anyone got a buck....

I thought post #3 was funny, though I can understand why one wouldn't see the humor. Certainly these deaths are tragic. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Hope you have a happy Thanksgiving.

[Grey Ghost II]

the "humor" of this is lost on me. my best friend was shot by poachers accidently while he was out coon hunting when we were 17 years old.. maybe that's why i'm pretty sickened over people laughing over this..

Sorry about your friend. If you read the post I was responding to, the humor wasn't people getting shot but another poster asking whether anyone got a buck.

Sorry if I offended you.

[Texas Songwriter]

I agree. The whole reason for naturalizing foreigners was to amalgamate them into a "melting pot", not to sift them with a strainer to separate out one group from another. Democrat politicians have played one group against another for generations, and it is given reprisal to the notion of self imposed segregation. I, like many Americans, want to be left alone, but I am an American with loyaties to God, family, country. Not to my Irish or german or native american heritage. I am an American. Wilson was correct about the notion of the hyphenated American.

[ApplegateRanch]

"Serial killer' may be more correct than you intended, since he is now being looked at regarding ANOTHER murdered hunter incident.

Two or three years ago, a single white hunter, in a near by county, was shot in the back and killed by three Asians. Vang's truck closely matches the decription of the truck in that unsolved murder.

[newcthem]

The local media is reporting in a interview with friends of the murdered people was that this piece of sh*t had been asked to leave the property twice before........kind of shoots the lost and wandering hunter argument.

[Petruchio]

I agree that once he was told by the owner, the question of signs was moot. However, that is not the focus of my post above. My post concerned the text written by the CLAMs below the picture.

" A no hunting or trespassing sign is posted November 24, 2004 near the cabin in the area where eight hunters were shot November 21, 2004 in Sawyer County, Wisconsin, leaving six dead and two wounded."

That text is vague as to if the sign in the picture is one of the actual signs posted on that specific property, or some property down the road and used in the picture as a representation of the type of sign used for posting property in that area. This becomes important because some of the first reports said Vang was found on the property earlier in the day then again at lunch time. Also post #73 on this thread talks of multiple trespasses by Vang on this same property.

I am interested in examining photos of the actual property that appear in the press. It gives an idea of how far from the road the crime scene is,(if police yellow tape is visible) how close the CLAMs are being allowed to the crime scene, and what the actual wording of the posting signs was. (ie:was verbal permission acceptable or was written permission needed) Also, if this was the cabin on the property, where is the police tape, and where are the cars/trucks from all the hunters. I can guaren-damn-tee that at least 6 did not drive themselves away from the area. That would mean vehicles left behind. Where are they? Vehicles left behind would be taped off as part of the scene. This leads me to think that the photo is of another cabin in the area used as a representation. After all, who would know the difference?

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

Statement: "...While we are left holding the bag."

Response: Or as in this case getting shot.

[ChefKeith]

hydrant mark

[Zebra]

I love cultural diversity as much as the next guy, but this is ridiculous. America's gonna sink from the weight.

Maybe, but Wiscy is going to have one less Hmong soon. That dang Vang is gonna hang.........

[PjhCPA]

I thought I had read that too, but it wasn't raised in the criminal complaint. If this is true, it may give reason why they started calling him nasty names.

[SJackson]

It's Reuters. Aside from the irrelevancy of the sign, and what I think is it's inadequacy, doesn't name the owner and town, I've never seen a sign with a posting date. Including the one in the Reuters photo. On the one hand I'd assume there were plenty of press around with nothing to do but snap pics, so why pull a file photo. But I'd believe anything, including lazy reporters. I've read the accounts of multiple tresspass, dating back to last year. If true, tell's me this might have been about a grudge. Should have just called the Sheriff if that was the case. Your questions are interesting, but I'm not sure there's much bearing on the facts.

[Innisfree]

I agree that we ought all be known as just plain Americans. The melting pot may have turned into a salad bowl, but I still value the ideal of assimilation. (In that vein, it would be nice if there were at least one book that all Americans had read---required reading for students, perhaps---as a note of commonality.) I would rather not be asked about my background on standardized forms, but as long as they're asking such questions I prefer to specify my ethnic heritage, rather than be designated by the slightly racist, catchall term, "white".