Posted on 11/24/2004 9:44:22 AM PST by LouAvul
HAYWARD, Wis. – The man suspected of shooting six hunters to death and a survivor agree that the tragedy began with a confrontation on private land. But they sharply differ on what happened next.
Survivor Lauren Hesebeck told investigators Chai Vang, 36, of St. Paul, Minn., turned around after a verbal exchange and started shooting his rifle from 40 yards away.
But Vang told Sawyer County investigators he began firing only after one of Hesebeck's hunting buddies, Terry Willers, shot at him with a rifle from about 100 feet away and missed. Vang, a Hmong immigrant from Laos, also claimed the hunters taunted him with racial slurs and warned him he would be reported to law enforcement for being on private land, according to a document filed Tuesday.
Hesebeck's version, contained in the same statement, makes no mention of that type of language or verbal hostility, other than saying Vang used profanity at one point.
Hesebeck, who was released from a hospital Tuesday after treatment for a shoulder wound, told investigators Willers shot at Vang after Vang fired first but missed.
Both accounts agreed that Vang shot the others as more people from the deer camp arrived at the scene, summoned by Hesebeck using a walkie-talkie to call for help.
Vang said he continued firing as the group scattered, and at one point chased one of the hunters and shot him in the back, only to find the man had no gun, the document states.
Authorities have said there was only one gun among the victims. According to investigators, it's believed Vang fired at least 20 shots.
Hesebeck told the Star Tribune of Minneapolis on Tuesday that much of what he had heard in news media reports about the shootings was not accurate.
"A lot of it is not true," he said. "But at this point, I just can't discuss anything." Members of his family and another victim's family had planned to talk with reporters Wednesday but canceled the news conference.
Sunday's shootings occurred after Vang got lost while hunting, climbed into a tree stand on private property and then got into the confrontation with Willers and others hunting with him.
The victims were part of a group of about 15 people who made their annual opening-weekend trip to the 400-acre property co-owned by Robert Crotteau and Willers.
Killed were Crotteau, 42; his son, Joey Crotteau, 20; Al Laski, 43; Mark Roidt, 28; Jessica Willers, 27; and Denny Drew, 55, all from the Rice Lake area. Terry Willers, Jessica's father, remained hospitalized Wednesday in good condition.
Vang was arrested about four hours after the shootings as he emerged from the woods with his empty semiautomatic rifle. Five people died in the woods; a sixth died Monday in a hospital. Two others were wounded.
Hmong 'Condemn These Atrocities'
There have been previous clashes between Southeast Asian and white hunters in the region. Hunters have complained the Hmong do not understand the concept of private property and hunt wherever they want. The tension once led to a fistfight in Minnesota, and a Hmong bow hunter in Wisconsin this fall reported having at least two white hunters point guns at him.
About 24,000 Hmong live in St. Paul, the highest concentration of any U.S. city. Hmong leaders condemned the shootings and offered condolences to victims' families.
"What happened in Wisconsin is in no way representative of the Hmong people and what they stand for," said Cha Vang, no relation to the suspect.
"We stand before you as representatives of the greater law-abiding Hmong community to unconditionally, unconditionally, condemn these atrocities."
New details about Vang began to emerge Tuesday.
Military records obtained by The Associated Press show he spent six years in the California National Guard and earned a sharpshooter qualification badge. But his primary role during his time in the Guard, from 1989-95, involved clerical duties.
After his discharge, he spent two more years in the Individual Ready Reserve. His records also include a Good Conduct medal.
Circuit Judge Norman Yackel ordered Vang jailed Tuesday on $2.5 million bail. He ruled that evidence submitted to him was sufficient to hold Vang on suspicion of murder and attempted murder, pending the filing of formal charges.
"Hmong are basically good people"?
I don't know how you can make a statement like that when they have introduced more cultural pollution into this country, with people who do not understand the concept of private property. What else about our country do they not understand? They have apparently made no effort to assimilate.
Agree......
I know a lot of Americans who don't have a clue about property rights. Besides who's introducing MORE cultural pollution than our own homespun American liberals anyway.
"I don't know how you can make a statement like that when they have introduced more cultural pollution into this country, with people who do not understand the concept of private property. What else about our country do they not understand? They have apparently made no effort to assimilate."
I see. And this is based on your personal knowledge of a large group of Hmong immigrants, I suppose.
The fact that this killer was Hmong is really irrelevant. Most Hmong are very peaceable people. In the St. Paul area, they are homeowners, employees, and are assimilating very quickly. If you shop in the local supermarkets, one of the checker's is probably Hmong. If you eat in a restaurant, you may be waited on by a Hmong waiter.
The Hmong, as a group, are doing pretty well here. It's been a tough transition for the first generation of refugees and immigrants. They're moving from an extremely rural subtropical area to the 15th largest metropolitan area in the nation. New arrivals come every year.
As with all immigrant groups, the first generation has some difficulty making the transition. The second generation Hmongs, of which there are many here, all speak perfect English and you couldn't tell if they were Hmong, Chinese, Vietnamese, or from any other oriental ethnic group.
They live all over the city, and in the suburbs. There are two Hmong families on my own block in St. Paul, and they're very nice folks and good neighbors.
Oh, yes, there are at least a dozen Hmong Christian churches in the Twin Cities, and they're doing heavy evangelism in the Hmong community, which seems eager to accept Christianity as their religion.
Chai Vang is a killer. He needs to be punished. Punishing the rest of the Hmong community makes no sense.
Good friend of mine from Eden Prairie [MN] relates that a year or so ago a friend of his dropped a nice white tail buck on private land not far south of the twin cities. As he was walking up to the deer, five Hmong showed up with their obligatory SKS rifles and ran him off of his own deer at gunpoint. Apparently the Hmong like the SKS rifles mainly because they can buy them all day long for less than $200. Does anyone here know if these Hmong are US nationals or resident aliens? Also, can green cards buy firearms and if so why? My friend in Eden Prairie also said that according to the local news, the shooter had a rap sheet, including a domestic violence report alleging that he pointed a firearm at his wife. Don't suppose the LEOs out there have a PC problem with these people. Nah, what a crazy, bigotted idea.
"I would bet that for the most part, the Hmong are a law abiding and thankful group."
And you'd be right.
[i]"Hmong are basically good people"?
I don't know how you can make a statement like that when they have introduced more cultural pollution into this country, with people who do not understand the concept of private property. What else about our country do they not understand? They have apparently made no effort to assimilate.
[/i]
considering the hmong were ethnically cleaned from their country because they helped american soldiers during vietnam, maybe you should cut them a little slack? think about that again, whole villages were massacred because they helped american soldiers and saved many american lives in the process. i'm sorry you think the hmong have not done anything for america except introduce massive cultural pollution. many ex-servicemen would disagree.
This is another confusing point for me. The day this happened our local TV news stations sent teams up there. They all showed a number of similar signs and said that the land was well posted.
HOWEVER, every report was worded similar to the picture above. It is not clear if this sign is for the property the crime was committed on or other private property in the area. Things can be worded to mean more than one thing. As a matter of fact I can word a comment so that you think it means one thing when in fact it is completly different. Is that the case in the above pic? I don't put anything past the CLAMs reporting this story.
We stand before you as representatives of the greater law-abiding Hmong community to unconditionally, unconditionally, condemn these atrocities."
Unlike the Muslims, the Hmong condemn their own criminals.
good point, I think we should try to remember this
EXCELLENT point...deport a liberal for freedom, NOW!
"This is the stylistic PC prose that somehow bothers me. Why is "white" never capitalized? Or rather, shouldn't the various racial groups be standardized i.e. European American? "There have previous clashes between Asians and White hunters in the region." "There have been previous clashes between Southeast Asian and European Americans in the region." Seems silly, but watch for it in your local rag."
That's simple. Southeast Asia is a proper noun, and its derivatives are also properly capitalized. White is a color, and is not capitalized. Neither is Black, Red, Green, or Yellow.
White is a descriptor, with no roots to any proper noun.
It's just the rules of spelling in the English Language.
You are an American. The root noun for that word is America, which is a proper noun. Similarly, Christian is properly capitalized, because it derives from Christ.
The rules are simple. Colors are not capitalized, except at the beginning of a sentence.
The guy murdered 6 people, I don't think he cared to much about signs.
that is horrible
The important question everyone should be asking is whether or not anyone got a buck....
pretty poor but then I'm kind of close to the situation geographically and probably professionally in the future. I'd probably be more upset but it also sounds like something I would say if it had happened elsewhere so who am I to judge. Maybe in a couple of days this will go over better.
Balkanization of Americal....conceptualize term of Pat Buchannan
Culture war.....coined by Buchanan
Perhaps Pat, a man before his time, has much yet to say. Let us listen closely. We may learn something.
I object to the use of the term "white" to characterize Americans of European ancestry. Strictly speaking, hyphenated terms are silly, since the ancestry of most Americans is so mixed, but "white" is a non-descriptive term with racial overtones. I routinely cross out the term "white" on demographic questionnaires and write in "Anglo-American" or "European-American".
This guys needs to be Hmong out to dry!
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