You're another one who spreads this nonsense about "intent."
You traddies love to scare lurkers with this "intent" nonsense. You simply do not know what you're talking about."
It seems that we have a mutual friend who has never read St. Thomas Aquinas, or St. Augustine. I guess the phrase "Dubiam Sacramentum est Nulla Sacramentum" doth not mean anything to him.
For a sacrament - in this case a mass - to be valid, the following ingredients must all be present: a valid rite, a valid minister of the sacrament (validly ordained priest or bishop), valid matter (unleavened bread & wine), and the proper intention of the minister of the sacrament to confect the sacrament - that is, to effect transubstaniation.
Without the presence of ALL of these ingredients together, we do not have a mass, there is no transubstantiation, and the bread remains bread. Period.
We usually presume that the priest is validly ordained, unless we know otherwise. We usually presume that the priest has the correct intention ot validly confect the sacrament, unless we know from his words that he believes and practices otherwise. But, as I said, sometimes we CAN know these things.
Now as to our friendly lurkers, they should and can know these things. In a former time, they were taught in every grade school which was Catholic. Not so now. But you should know this - and you have a right to know these things. It is not secret, arcane information. This is contained in any good truly Catholic catechism. Available in works by Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Robert Bellermine, Augustine of Hippo, Francis DeSales.
If this means by doing some digging that you find out that your priest does not believe in the mass as sacrifice, nor in transubstantiation - find another priest.....or go to a different church.
If it were true that the Novus Ordo Missae was an invalid rite - on the face of it, then we as Catholics have and are being cheated. Robbed of the faith, and conned into committing material idolatry of bread & wine.
If that were true, then it would be like sounding a fire alarm in a crowded building......there would be a stampede for the door. Some men who wore mitres & biretas would be lynched.
But that, as Paul Harvey used to say........is another story.
If that were true, then it would be like sounding a fire alarm in a crowded building......there would be a stampede for the door. Some men who wore mitres & biretas would be lynched.
But that, as Paul Harvey used to say........is another story.
The Novus Ordo is not invalid. Never has been, never will be.
You dispense wisdom like a mental patient.
Bingo. That's exactly what we have done and been excoriated for doing so.