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To: murphE

Neither habitual nor interpretative intention in the minister will suffice for the validity of the sacrament

It seems somebody has forgotten this line....

And if our priest becomes a heretic/apostate it is possible for his consecrations to be valid in theory, but as a practical reality they may not be. If he does believe in the mass as sacrifice, and cannot project the intention of hte church upon the sacrament.....it dont work!


134 posted on 11/24/2004 7:56:16 PM PST by thor76 (Vade retro, Draco! Crux sacra sit mihi lux! St. Michael the Archangel defend us in battle!)
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To: thor76
And if our priest becomes a heretic/apostate it is possible for his consecrations to be valid in theory, but as a practical reality they may not be. If he does believe in the mass as sacrifice, and cannot project the intention of hte church upon the sacrament.....it dont work!

Wrong. This is heresy. If the priest has expressed the intention to "Do what the Church does" and never retracted it, his internal disposition is incidental. Sinner, apostate, heretic..his words of consecration confect the sacrament. It is Christ who acts, not the priest.

You need to learn some elementary sacramental theology, thorski. Your ignorance is showing.

139 posted on 11/24/2004 8:13:24 PM PST by sinkspur ("It is a great day to be alive. I appreciate your gratitude." God Himself.)
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To: thor76; sinkspur
It seems somebody has forgotten this line....
Secondly, there is the virtual intention. Its force is borrowed entirely from a prior volition which is accounted as continuing in some result produced by it. In other words, the virtual intention is not a present act of the will. but rather a power (virtus) come about as an effect of a former act, and now at work for the attainment of the end. The thing therefore that is wanting in a virtual, as contrasted with an actual, intention is not of course the element of will, but rather the attention of the intellect, and that particularly of the reflex kind. So, for example, a person having made up his mind to undertake a journey may during its progress be entirely preoccupied with other thoughts. He will nevertheless be said to have all the while the virtual intention of reaching his destination. Thirdly, a habitual intention is one that once actually existed, but of the present continuance of which there is no positive trace; the most that can be said of it is that it has never been retracted.

Virtual is sufficient, habitual insufficient. Intention is always presumed when the rite prescribed by the Church is followed, however:

The Church does not judge about the mind and intention, in so far as it is something by its nature internal; but in so far as it is manifested externally she is bound to judge concerning it. A person who has correctly and seriously used the requisite matter and form to effect and confer a sacrament is presumed for that very reason to have intended to do (intendisse) what the Church does. On this principle rests the doctrine that a Sacrament is truly conferred by the ministry of one who is a heretic or unbaptized, provided the Catholic rite be employed. (Leo XIII, Apostolicae Curae)

153 posted on 11/24/2004 8:51:21 PM PST by gbcdoj ("I acknowledge everyone who is united with the See of Peter" - St. Jerome)
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