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It's rare to have people around who can: (a) engage in civil discourse; and (b) string two or more coherent sentences together. Therefore, in case there is any problem, I insist that the two of you kiss and make up.

LOLOL! You have known me for years, PatrickHenry, so I'm sure you know that I do not take offense and try very hard not to give offense.

I do apologize to you, StJacques, for any offense I caused. It was never my intent.

The reason I withdrew from the discussion amounts to an inability to communicate. To restart the discussion, we'd have to agree to the definition and meaning of various terms and make a bunch of other stipulations. That is a tall order for busy people.

Ok, no offense taken on my part. I see miscommunication evident too, but if I were to explain the dynamics of that miscommunication from my own viewpointI might start a whole new argument, so I will leave that alone. Allow me to state that my professional background includes extensive training in epistemology, systems theory, quantitative theory -- which begins as a final part of advanced Logic, and mathematics. I'll skip the details except to say that the method of reasoning is something I consider very important because it has been drilled into my head.

One final comment to you Alamo-Girl that may help to keep the peace. I understand that you have a deeply-motivated sense of religious feeling. I read the "Standing in Awe" thread. Please know that this is something I would never deride. I too am a deeply religious person. I view my religious justification as a faith supported by, though not entirely arising from, my recognition that morality and ethics do not exist because of some cumulative experience that they work or because of some relative distinction of the pleasure and pain they cause or because they represent some ancient system defined in such a way that they are persisted to this present day. I am absolutely convinced, and in this I make a purely metaphysical argument, that morality and ethics are substantial in nature because they flow from a divine being. I know this intuitively and, though I cannot argue it from a scientific perspective, I believe it much more than anything I conclude from what I see in the natural world.