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Ok, no offense taken on my part. I see miscommunication evident too, but if I were to explain the dynamics of that miscommunication from my own viewpointI might start a whole new argument, so I will leave that alone. Allow me to state that my professional background includes extensive training in epistemology, systems theory, quantitative theory -- which begins as a final part of advanced Logic, and mathematics. I'll skip the details except to say that the method of reasoning is something I consider very important because it has been drilled into my head.

One final comment to you Alamo-Girl that may help to keep the peace. I understand that you have a deeply-motivated sense of religious feeling. I read the "Standing in Awe" thread. Please know that this is something I would never deride. I too am a deeply religious person. I view my religious justification as a faith supported by, though not entirely arising from, my recognition that morality and ethics do not exist because of some cumulative experience that they work or because of some relative distinction of the pleasure and pain they cause or because they represent some ancient system defined in such a way that they are persisted to this present day. I am absolutely convinced, and in this I make a purely metaphysical argument, that morality and ethics are substantial in nature because they flow from a divine being. I know this intuitively and, though I cannot argue it from a scientific perspective, I believe it much more than anything I conclude from what I see in the natural world.

Thank you so much for your reply and for sharing your background and especially, your testimony!

You might enjoy the discussion on betty boop's essay: On Plato, the Early Church, and Modern Science: An Eclectic Meditation.

betty boop is the most eloquent philosopher known to me and has an overarching understanding of "all that there is" which you might also find appealing. At least two of the strongest mathematicians on the forum (Doctor Stochastic and tortoise) are posting on that thread. Some of the other great Freeper-philosphers are also posting there (beckett, cornelis, marron, etc.).

Perhaps you have already engaged these great minds, but if not, you might enjoy having a look-see. I'm confident they are better equipped to explore some of your favorite subjects than I will ever be.

I'm pinging all of the Freepers I've mentioned because it is impolite to compliment posters behind their backs.