Mexico, U.S. reach accord on migrants' Social Security

El Universal Online ^ | November 23, 2004 | Wire services

[justanotherfreeper]

The congress will have something to say about this, and the House especially will not be kind to this type of crap being peddled.

No they won't, that's why this is so depressing. The only thing Congress can do is veto the agreement once it is signed, BUT there is a SCOTUS case (INS v. Chadha in 1983) that says a congressional veto is unconstitutional. So even if Congress vetos, the LaRaza crowd goes to court and enforces the totalization agreement. The ONLY way to stop it is to convince the Bush idiots this is a horrible idea so they don't sign the agreement to begin with.

[Southack]

"Illegal aliens work at stolen jobs. Their employment and wages are part of a criminal tresspass, and should be forfeit."

How many illegal aliens pay money *in* to our Social Security Administration?

[Southack]

"The ONLY way to stop it is to convince the Bush idiots this is a horrible idea so they don't sign the agreement to begin with."

To get the Social Security money, they have to have first paid money *in* to our Social Security Administration, and then they have to return home to recieve their monthly checks.

Why is making them return to Mexico such a bad idea in your world?

[Fatalis]

"The initiatives entail the recognition of all those (Mexicans) who have worked in the United States legally or otherwise, so they will have the right to the savings they accumulated while working in the neighboring country," said Fox, who is visiting Ecuador.

Well, this certainly puts the lie to any claim that the reason we don't deport illegal aliens is that we can't find them. If they've got Social Security accounts then we know exactly who the are and where they work.

[BlackbirdSST]

Just give me all my money back, you can keep the interest, and we'll call it all square.

Sounds like a plan, where do we sign up? Mexico City? Blackbird.

[brianl703]

Oh yea, that's another way to do it.

[Regulator]

Works for me

Not for me!

[Southack]

Why don't you want to send them back to Mexico for their retirement?

[justanotherfreeper]

It would take several pages for a complete response, including disparities in the systems between Mexico and the US, potential for fraud and lack of any way to adequately verify work histories to explain -- and someone else has done a better job. I strongly recommend you read Social Security "Totalization": Examining a Lopsided Agreement with Mexico to understand why anyone who has seen the numbers, including the GAO and several former Social Security commissioners, are so upset. No matter what the media tells you, this is NOT just a bunch of xenophobic Mexican haters opposed to this. This is bad, bad, bad policy. (Unless the Bush administration is deliberately trying to destroy the Social Security system so we can replace it with a freemarket alternative. But I don't think that's what's going on!)

[WRhine]

If it passes, the stampede can only accelerate.

Watch for a midnight, voice only vote on the passage of treasonous legislation. Every congressman that voted for it will then proceed to lie to their constituents.

[Southack]

The article for this thread above says that they have to have first paid money in to our Social Security Administration (not too many illegals are going to qualify), and that this agreement sends them back to Mexico to collect their monthly SS retirement checks.

That sounds pretty good to me. You'd prefer that they stay here??

[skip_intro]

Just out of curiosity, will they have to pay US income taxes, like most of us will, on this already taxed money? Or will this be yet another benefit they'll receive for breaking our laws?

[WRhine]

(Unless the Bush administration is deliberately trying to destroy the Social Security system so we can replace it with a freemarket alternative. But I don't think that's what's going on!)

This is all about the FTAA and what has to be done to obliterate what’s left of America's sovereignty and borders.

[mountainlyons]

I want my money back too!

[Regulator]

Why don't you want to send them back to Mexico for their retirement?

Because, um, I want them to be deported now, not later?

And when they get there, I want them to be rather less than favorable towards their "goberment", and overthrow it?

But it's really not my business, once they get there. I really, really could care less. The only reason it is our business is because a) they came here and b) their president and their government have chosen to butt into our political lives. So my opinion is worth saying: they should go home and indebt their own damn country and people, not ours. Especially when they came here against our laws, remained here against our laws, worked here against our laws, committed document fraud if they got Social Security (gotta have a number, ya know). Is that a real difficult concept to grasp?

I mean, you do know that FICA is a tax, and that Social Security funds are welfare at the leisure of Congress, right? And that the "benefits" routinely exceed the sums paid in? Right? You know that, being self employed and all?

It's a reward for criminal behavior. Period. It's one of the whines that the Reconquista Front has been peddling for years: they say that the U.S. wants illegals to come here so that they can steal SS money from them to shore up the system. Bush is trying to appease them by giving them the money. Essentially, they are the Mordelon and he is paying them the Mordida.

[jrp]

Didn't SCOTUS rule that SS "contributions" are just another tax that workers have no property rights to? If they can get "theirs" out, why can't I?

[WildTurkey]

Yessirree, this sounds like a real "conservative" initiative: social welfare money for foreign criminals.

They earned the money, some legally. Do you support taking their money from them?

[Southack]

Your post makes no sense. The article for this thread says that the Mexicans have to first pay their money *in* to our Social Security system to be eligible, and then they have to go back to Mexico to collect.

Well, if they paid their money in to SS, give it back to them...when they return to Mexico.

The alternative seems less savory.

[justanotherfreeper]

Have you read the entire article? No, it isn't a few, we're talking potentially millions of people. Look at the chart on page 9 -- almost five million Mexican illegal aliens are in this country now. Even if only HALF of them qualify, that's over two million additional people on the SS roles at the same time the boomers hit the system. It permits Mexicans to receive family benefits they would NOT be entitled to if they were American citizens, it allows Mexicans to recieve Social Security with as little as 18 months work, it gives a strong incentive for Mexicans to cross the border to become qualified for our Social Security (as Mexico's system is in worse shape than our, hard as that is to believe), there are very serious questions about determining a person's work history which opens up lots of opportunities for fraud. (Forged SS#s, multiple folks working off one SS#, etc. -- how do you prove you are John Smith who worked in Acme Grocery store from 93-95 when five other people where using that same #?) And workers and their families are entitled to disability/survivor benefits for which the family doesn't have to leave the US. THEN add in the fact SS is set up to disproportionately pay better benefits for lower wage workers! This is a disaster.

I prefer we not exponentially escalate illegal immigration by using taxpayer money to lure illegal immigrants here. Sigh. and I'm having buyer's remorse on Bush -- I thought he'd figure out he'd been elected IN SPITE of his immigration stance, not because of it.

[WildTurkey]

So the conservative (yea, right) Bush Aministration has agreed to open up Social Security to illegal immigrants huh? Now nice for them.

Uh, no. I think they have been deducting Payroll taxes for years before Bush.