Innocence Abroad (They hate us, they really and truly hate us!)

Tech Central Station ^ | November 19, 2004 | Eric R. Staal

[quidnunc]

In light of how the media and political elites in Europe continue to denounce the war in Iraq and openly criticize the reelection of President George W. Bush, it is surprising that their reaction to the replacement of Secretary of State Colin Powell with Condoleezza Rice has been so favorable. After all, Powell was widely regarded in Europe as the single moderate voice in an administration of hawks.

Despite the positive remarks about Condoleezza Rice from German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer and his French counterpart Michel Barnier, it is important not to underestimate the depth of anti-Americanism in Europe and its impact on U.S. foreign policy around the world.

-snip-

It is important to understand that modern American conservatism has no equivalent in Europe and has never been accepted as legitimate in European intellectual circles, which are monolithically both secular and liberal. There is no National Review or Weekly Standard, no talk radio personalities or Fox News to challenge the liberal orthodoxy. Serious ideological diversity among think-tanks and political foundations in any European country is negligible.

Just how much influence do these opinion shapers have? The Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Survey from March this year noted that "solid majorities in France and Germany believe the U.S. is conducting the war on terrorism in order to control Mideast oil and dominate the world." In Turkey "as many as 31 percent say that suicide attacks against Americans and other Westerners in Iraq are justifiable." Turkey is important, because it stayed out of the coalition in Iraq and we know whose club it wants to join.

-snip-

[Hun in the sun]

"If you had a 9/11 attack you'd still be sitting around wondering who to apologize to so that you could avoid being attacked again."

We would have tried to find the background and the
reasons for an attack, eleminate these reasons and
build up our country/buildings again.
As we did past 1945.

"Secondly, we didn't start the war, we're just finishing it..."

Most Euros doubt this chronology.
It`s simple: "Hey, we`ve been attacked by Saudis,
so let`s attack Iraq" ???
Doesn`t make sense for most Euros.


Hun

[Hun in the sun]

"How about 70,000 dead U.S. soldiers that France doesn't give a flying crap about anymore!"

Do they?

Last time I`ve been in France, they british and american
cemetries were in excellent condition.
Or what do you mean?


Hun

[bill1952]

No hun, that statement was correct, and it is not for you to say nonsence to the way we think.

We elected our president and when some snot EU says" We hate Bush but not Americans" then you can take that attitude and shove it up your hun ass.

Hate Bush, fine. Tell me you don't hate me, take a walk - The way we see it, is that you are pissing on our backs and trying to tell us it's raining.

As far as owing you $$$. Hey, what BS you spread. You invest in bonds you get a return, just like any one here, and I don't owe you a damn thing else, except a good kick in your ass.

[Michael81Dus]

I think I should reconsider borrowing you money...

Bttt, from the view of my ´fellow´ anti-Bush-Europeans, it reads as follows: Bush is evil, Americans are friendly, but dumb, Bush has spent more money during the campaign = dumb Americans re-elect ´Mr. Evil´. That´s how they can say that they hate Bush, but not Americans. Indeed, it was a major shock for them when they realized that Bush won also the popular vote.

It´s so simple, when you only write, read and watch what you believe in, you never have to think about your own position.

[bill1952]

>Bttt, from the view of my ´fellow´ anti-Bush-Europeans, it reads as follows: Bush is evil, Americans are friendly, but dumb,

I understand that view very well, and it is my point.
We are not dumb, and that viewpoint earns you shock after shock.
BYW, the KERRY campaign and 527s raised MORE money that Bush's, so tell THAT to your "fellow" anti-Bush/anti/American EUs.

We feel that most Europeans are not only NOT friendly, but ignorant. (not dumb, but you do have little access to pro capitalist viewpoints and are not educated to address these issues fairly or cogently)

>It´s so simple, when you only write, read and watch what you believe in, you never have to think about your own position.

Please clarify. That could be meant 2 ways.

My grandfather on my mother's side remained in Germany (Hamburg) and did not survive the bombings that my father participated in. (Pilot & officer/Army Air Corps)

I've spent many years in Europe, and have acquired a healthy disrespect for all things Socialist, including most of the respective countries of the EU and many of their constituents who harbor an ill concealed contempt for Americans and their intellect.

And that did not just come upon me. You earned it.

>I think I should reconsider borrowing you money...

Feel free. :)

[Dec31,1999]

The Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Survey from March this year noted that "solid majorities in France and Germany believe the U.S. is conducting the war on terrorism in order to control Mideast oil and dominate the world." In Turkey "

Jealousy is an ugly thing, isn't it? ;)

[Michael81Dus]

I wholeheartly disagree. Europeans are not that open-minded and often-smiling like Americans, but in general they´re friendly. Ignorant, yes, that´s what a small majority is, sure.

It´s so simple, when you only write, read and watch what you believe in, you never have to think about your own position.

It IS meant in both ways. I´ve seen many FReepers ignoring facts and also many Europeans who do so. This sentence is a general one, like a reminder to reconsider your position allday. I do so and sometimes I change my view, e.g. I was a supporter for Arafat even in 2001, then more reluctant in 2002 and by the end of 2003 I had a "not very respectful" opinion of him. So, not only read what you want to read, but keep in touch with the contrary view - it COULD be right.

Regards,

Michael

[Dec31,1999]

Indeed, it was a major shock for them when they realized that Bush won also the popular vote.

Well, of course, since there is NO Conservative Media to speak of in Europe, what would one expect people to think?

[Twinkie]

Jealousy and Hate are close relatives.

[Dec31,1999]

It´s so simple, when you only write, read and watch what you believe in, you never have to think about your own position.

Quite true. If you don't keep in touch with what both sides are saying, you really can't know what's going on. Like you said, it's very simple.

[Haro_546]

"It is important to understand that modern American conservatism has no equivalent in Europe".

This is true to the extent of my knowledge, but the central ideology of american conservativism came from Europe.

[kingsurfer]

Nah, there are loads of successful Conservative media networks in Europe.

Murdoch Network (Owns Fox)
Axel Springer

[Haro_546]

"Outside the US there is no equivalent to the Republican Party". This is not true, in canada there has been a long tradition of american style conservative parties. In Mexico, the PAN is similar to the republican party in its belief in small government, and rule of man under god. Australia also has a conservative party. Britain it was Marget thatcher.

[Dec31,1999]

Really? Funny, I've NEVER met any Europeans with any sort of Conservative sense. Either the Conservative media there is ineffectual, or only the Socialists visit here. I'll have to give this some thought.

[Haro_546]

HEY IM A CATHOLIC !!!!

[Michael81Dus]

Not only that, but it was a shock, because so many Leftists reproached Bush with being anti-democratic, lol.

[bill1952]

Thank you for the reply.

Did you note the title and the point of this thread?

>It is important to understand that modern American conservatism has no equivalent in Europe and has never been accepted as legitimate in European intellectual circles, which are monolithically both secular and liberal. There is no National Review or Weekly Standard, no talk radio personalities or Fox News to challenge the liberal orthodoxy. Serious ideological diversity among think-tanks and political foundations in any European country is negligible.

---

My four cornered friend, that is the very definition of ignorance, and it is right on point.

Are you seriously going to dispute the material quoted?

Or are we having a language misunderstanding about the difference between "dumb" and ignorant?"

[bill1952]

And that Canadian party has what exactly power in shaping the political landscape?

PAN carries exactly what weight?

I see your point, but staying in the EU, then I believe that the article is spot on.

And England is not yet EU, is it?
That would be a dark day...

[Michael81Dus]

My guess is YOU have a language misunderstanding, because you probably interpreted things in my post I did not say. Regarding my "wholeheartly disagreement" I solely disputed your claim that Europeans are not friendly. I don´t doubt (from my own very personal experience) that a small majority is ignorant. However, there are conservative foundations and parties, the problem is just the media.

[Michael81Dus]

England IS EU-member, my enlightened friend.