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To: papertyger

Ah, I see your argument now.

The fact that you accuse ME of hyperbole when I was arguing against a fellow who refered to Muslims as Muzzle-ems is a little bit ironic though.

And I agree completely that I am incapable of taking an objective view on this, that is kind of what my last post was all about. Of course, I also believe you are incapable of taking an objective view on it. We are only human. Subjective views are often valid however, so I won't hold that against you.

If the statement I am dealing with is "Islam is inherently antagonistic (muderously so) to anything that is not Islam," then you are right, I was engaged in a bit of hyperbole. That is certainly something that can be argued, though I still disagree with it (though not as violently).

The problem is that this argument still judges the vast majority of the religion by the acts of a few. Also, if the average Arab on the street has a problem with the US, that does not necessarily prove that Islam is to blame: they are mostly upset about Isreal (not that I am proposing we give in there), and now Iraq. The key, as I said before, is NOT to try and "convert" them away from Islam. It is to "corrupt" Islam with some nice western values, like democracy, human rights and capitalism.


78 posted on 11/19/2004 7:15:31 AM PST by smcmike
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To: smcmike
The problem is that this argument still judges the vast majority of the religion by the acts of a few.

If we are going to carry on a proper arguement, you are going to have to quit wasting my time with cliches included to mask the fact you have very little background in the subject matter. You are speaking from a point of reference that assumes western liberal concepts, and in case you hadn't noticed...unqualified western liberal concepts are exceedingly tricky to apply to eastern peoples. Failing any meeting of cultural touchstones one is left with only one medium for substantive communication, and that medium is logic.

Also, if the average Arab on the street has a problem with the US, that does not necessarily prove that Islam is to blame: they are mostly upset about Isreal (not that I am proposing we give in there), and now Iraq.

Please tell me the extent of your reading on this subject. From my research, you have the problem exactly backward. Israel is the "little satan" while we are the "great satan." Israel is a western democracy, the fact that it is primarly populated by jews is just icing on the cake.

The key, as I said before, is NOT to try and "convert" them away from Islam. It is to "corrupt" Islam with some nice western values, like democracy, human rights and capitalism.

It is precisely that "corruption" that they are fighting against, and have been for about three hundred years. Unfortunately, you are living off the bones of what "conversion" has wrought without ever knowing the whats and whys of the living entity. You enjoy the abundant fruit without real knowlege of what it took to grow that fruit. Where do you think workable democracy, human rights, and capitalism came from?

79 posted on 11/19/2004 7:52:56 AM PST by papertyger
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